Metal plate behind Tile

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K

Kimrell

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
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Location
Florida
Hello,
I recently was asked to help an elderly friend install handrails in their bathroom. I ran into a problem with the last rail in the standing tile shower, see pictures. I found what I thought was a stud running up the wall and found metal behind the tile that I had trouble drilling through. No water leaking after drilling small pilot hole and its not electrical but the screws that came with the rail snapped when trying to finish the install.

What am I probably dealing with and what screws should I be using to finish this install?

Thanks for any time in answering what I hope is a simple question for the pros here!
 

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CT18 said:
Sometimes when metal studs are used they use a metal sheet for backing, instead of wood. You may need self tappers or even toggles.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I will take a look at those and see what might work best.
 
breplum said:
We use thick metal plates to protect pipes that are closer than 1” away from the wall.
Without opening up behind to see what you’re dealing with you could be headed for trouble
Click to expand...
Appreciate the warning, I was able to use a my smallest bit to drill through one of the hole so I'm guessing not more than a 1/8 in. thickness, would the plate be thicker than that?
maybe I'll invest in a tiny camera system and drill a small hole on the other side.
 
Yes, there’s probably a wires or pipes there. Probably pipes.

Go on the other side and cut a hole if possible. Personally I wouldn’t go any farther until I could see what I was drilling into.
 
It is so unfortunate that builders don’t generally plan for safety bars.
Unless you can figure out what’s behind the wall, you may need to relocate the bar.

I’ve always planned for them in a remodel, altering the studs to provide a large mounting area. I map out the stud locations and photograph the stud wall prior to finish work. Lastly I never use the enclosed hardware. I always upsize to longer and thicker screws, something like a 2” #10 or #12 Stainless. The heads will torque off very easily on SS screws, hence the upsize.
I have over 70 photos of every wall in my own home prior to drywall and tile. Helped me immensely when recently installing two safety bars.
 
When I install a shower I install 2x12 blocking the perimeter of the shower starting at 30” above the shower floor.

I also install solid backing for the addition of a shower door.
 
Twowaxhack said:
When I install a shower I install 2x12 blocking the perimeter of the shower starting at 30” above the shower floor.
I also install solid backing for the addition of a shower door.
Click to expand...

That's really a super way to deal with it. Too bad few others do that...especially in new builds. Shameful.
2 x 12 is a little bit of overkill but nobody would complain one bit.

While I'm not at the point in my life yet, where the safety bars are needed for me, I was made painfully aware of their need when my then 98 year old father came to visit last March. After two days here, he quietly said to me he can't really take a shower since there's nothing to hold onto. I felt terribly embarrassed that I didn't even think of this. So we immediately went off to the store to buy a couple of those vacuum/suction attached grab bars so he could be accommodated for his week here. After he left I went back to the photos, found the one of the bathroom walls prior to tiling, ordered both a long horizontal bar at the back wall, and a smaller vertical one on the side. I installed them with 2" long, #12 oversized stainless screws.

The builder's construction manager is a friend, and I gave it to him big time; first about not installing bars in the first place, but then also not even thinking about the need to install them. Luckily in my case I was able to get each end attached with three screws as their were double jack studs just where I needed them; they were there for a window above, not for the safety bar.

Just the other day, a friend was visiting who had just had knee surgery, and these were welcome additions.

If builders don't start doing this on their own, and remodelers doing it as standard, it's only a matter of time for it to become standard building code. In 2017, the NYT reported that 235,000 people in the USA over the age of 15 were injured in a bathroom incident. Bathroom slip and falls are among the top causes of injuries to the elderly. The small grab bar was $15; the larger one $40 in a two-pack. When I inspect a home and do NOT see these in a bathroom, I always suggest that adding them would be a good thing.

IMG_6884.jpegIMG_8425.jpeg
 
I use 2x12 so it spans from 30”-41” with one board. I get scraps from a contractor.
 
When I remodeled my bathrooms, I took pictures of the wall set up against a tape measure and added support bracing so if any grab bars were needed,I would know exactly where the optimum placement would be.
 
Twowaxhack said:
Yes, there’s probably a wires or pipes there. Probably pipes.

Go on the other side and cut a hole if possible. Personally I wouldn’t go any farther until I could see what I was drilling into.
Click to expand...
Thanks, thats what I will have to do next.
 
Mitchell-DIY-Guy said:
It is so unfortunate that builders don’t generally plan for safety bars.
Unless you can figure out what’s behind the wall, you may need to relocate the bar.

I’ve always planned for them in a remodel, altering the studs to provide a large mounting area. I map out the stud locations and photograph the stud wall prior to finish work. Lastly I never use the enclosed hardware. I always upsize to longer and thicker screws, something like a 2” #10 or #12 Stainless. The heads will torque off very easily on SS screws, hence the upsize.
I have over 70 photos of every wall in my own home prior to drywall and tile. Helped me immensely when recently installing two safety bars.
Click to expand...
brilliant, thats what I'll have to do if I remodel any rooms.
 
Mitchell-DIY-Guy said:
That's really a super way to deal with it. Too bad few others do that...especially in new builds. Shameful.
2 x 12 is a little bit of overkill but nobody would complain one bit.

While I'm not at the point in my life yet, where the safety bars are needed for me, I was made painfully aware of their need when my then 98 year old father came to visit last March. After two days here, he quietly said to me he can't really take a shower since there's nothing to hold onto. I felt terribly embarrassed that I didn't even think of this. So we immediately went off to the store to buy a couple of those vacuum/suction attached grab bars so he could be accommodated for his week here. After he left I went back to the photos, found the one of the bathroom walls prior to tiling, ordered both a long horizontal bar at the back wall, and a smaller vertical one on the side. I installed them with 2" long, #12 oversized stainless screws.

The builder's construction manager is a friend, and I gave it to him big time; first about not installing bars in the first place, but then also not even thinking about the need to install them. Luckily in my case I was able to get each end attached with three screws as their were double jack studs just where I needed them; they were there for a window above, not for the safety bar.

Just the other day, a friend was visiting who had just had knee surgery, and these were welcome additions.

If builders don't start doing this on their own, and remodelers doing it as standard, it's only a matter of time for it to become standard building code. In 2017, the NYT reported that 235,000 people in the USA over the age of 15 were injured in a bathroom incident. Bathroom slip and falls are among the top causes of injuries to the elderly. The small grab bar was $15; the larger one $40 in a two-pack. When I inspect a home and do NOT see these in a bathroom, I always suggest that adding them would be a good thing.

View attachment 33538View attachment 33539
Click to expand...
Nice job, gentleman i'm helping is in the same situation and I was asked to install these for them.
 
Since it is usually impossible to stud scan through tile, you can sometimes locate them from a room behind there, if you have access and can measure super carefully.

I have had good luck mounting bars by using heavy toggle bolts on two of the holes, and a straight ribbed blue plastic anchor on the third hole.
The plastic anchor keeps the mount from slipping around.
Toggle bolts will move because the hole is much wider than the bolt.
Even if everything is gooped up with silicone.
You have to know when to quit tightening toggle bolts, or they will fail.
I always drill all smaller holes first, in case I luck out and hit wood.
Drilling smaller holes first also ends up more accurate.
Bigger bits tend to wander.
Easy to enlarge a skinny hole.
I have never used them, but there are special heavy duty toggle type anchors that are only used with bars made to attach to them.
One big toggle, not three mounting holes.
 
I've got a snaking camera for the opposite wall and will let everyone know what I find behind that plate, if I finish, or any secondary questions. Much appreciate the time helping me with this project.
 
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