Advice needed to pass inspection: Water Softener Standpipe venting

[naphtul]

Hello,

I'm from New Jersey and recently installed a water filtration system.
I hired a licensed plumber through the company which sold me the filtration equipment and requested ahead of time to pull a permit.
I even had to pay an extra $200 to that company for them to pull the permit.
The inspector failed the installation with these comments:

1. AIR GAP REQUIRED FOR STAND PIPE
2. STAND PIPE HAVE TO BE VENTED

I reached out to the company to who I paid everything, and they wanted another $200 for the parts to make this inspection pass.
At this point, I said that I will do it myself. (I will "thank them" later with reviews.)

I have spent a couple of hours on YouTube trying to figure out how to solve this, but I would really appreciate your feedback.
I saw this product, which should easily solve #1:

I also saw these types of things:

However, I wasn't sure how they all fit in together.

I'd appreciate advice on what I need to buy to meet the NJ plumbing code.
Should I also replace that standpipe? The inspector had mentioned that cutting the pipe the way it is now doesn't meet the code.

Thanks,
Naphtali

 

[MicEd69]

WOW! I would call the BBB and the filtration manufacturer and let them know what kind of sales units they have.

It looks like he tried to make an air gap by cutting a slop in the standpipe. Obviously, that did not meet code though it probably would work as such.

And what is the P-trap on the right which also is not vented?

First you need to confirm that the inspector allows an AAV (Air Admittance Valve) in your system. If so, you do have the correct parts. To install these, however, is not going to be fun.

The plumber used the wrong fitting to connect the standpipe P-trap to the drain line. He used a sanitary or a regular tee, but as there is low flow, the inspector apparently didn't catch it or said it was acceptable as the flow is low.

That fitting should be replaced by a combo fitting with the branch line vertical.


To the vertical branch line, install a Street Sanitary Tee or a short section of pipe and a regular Sanitary Tee.


Install a short section of pipe to the branch line and then attach the P-trap/standpipe assembly to that short section of pipe. Install a section of pipe to the vertical connection of the Sanitary Tee and run it as high as reasonable, leaving room for the AAV, and making sure the AAV is 6" above the standpipe. Install the Air Gap to the top of the standpipe.

This should take care of the issues you have, and it will vent the existing P-trap on the right as well.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Seems to me that with an air gap at the top of a standpipe, it’s open to the atmosphere. What more venting would you need? Wouldn’t or shouldn’t the main vent be on the main stack (the 3” line on the left)? I would think that goes up and through the roof.

 

[MicEd69]

Seems to me that with an air gap at the top of a standpipe, it’s open to the atmosphere. What more venting would you need? Wouldn’t or shouldn’t the main vent be on the main stack (the 3” line on the left)? I would think that goes up and through the roof.

A vent is required between the P-trap and the drain. Should a slug of water flow down the 3" line, it will create a vacuum and atmospheric pressure will push the water from the P-trap into the 3" drainpipe removing the water seal. It is worsened by the fact that a wye was used to connect the horizontal drain line to the 3".

 

[naphtul]

Thank you @MicEd69 for the time you took with the response, and also @Mitchell-DIY-Guy
It made me realize that I might be in over my head with this...
This is how it looks now after a licensed plumber worked on it for 2 hours:

I'll update on the results of the inspection once it's done.

 

[MicEd69]

Looks like he added a check valve. Not sure why unless he thinks the flow will be so low that the water will evaporate in the P-trap. Everything looks good to me.

 

[MicEd69]

The check valve has really bothered me as it would have to be a spring-loaded check valve to work, and the spring would have to open with only about 4" of water column pressure. So, in looking at the picture closely, that check valve appears to be a swing check valve that is installed upside down. You can see the directional arrow on the valve body indicating that it is installed in the correct direction of flow, but the words on the valve body "Vertical Use This End Up" are upside down.

As I said earlier, the only reason I could see a check valve to be used in this configuration would be that "he thinks the flow will be so low that the water will evaporate in the P-trap". But as this is a swing check valve and not a spring-loaded check valve, should the water evaporate out of the P-trap, sewer gas will still come up through the open swing check valve that is installed upside down.

Could it be that this plumber doesn't know how a swing check works? Or is he perhaps upselling parts and labor for more profit?

 

[naphtul]

Thank you for this. I will ask him.

 

[naphtul]

@MicEd69, I found the spec sheet for the actual installed product:
https://my.legendvalve.com/ERP2Web/documents/pdf/S-614.pdfIt seems that you caught a mistake on the plumber's part. Indisputable now, right?
I haven't reached out to him for comment yet.
I'll be waiting on the results of the inspection first (scheduled for Monday).
If the inspector won't notice it, I'll point him to the right direction.
I'll update here.
Thank you!

 

[dmmsr]

Miced69 is right. This is a swing check valve and does absolutely nothing like this. It needs to be installed with the arrow up, which would not help you or install horizontally.

The check valve should've been installed on the 2" horizontal between the trap and the sanitary tee.

 

[dmmsr]

The check valve has really bothered me as it would have to be a spring-loaded check valve to work, and the spring would have to open with only about 4" of water column pressure. So, in looking at the picture closely, that check valve appears to be a swing check valve that is installed upside down. You can see the directional arrow on the valve body indicating that it is installed in the correct direction of flow, but the words on the valve body "Vertical Use This End Up" are upside down.

As I said earlier, the only reason I could see a check valve to be used in this configuration would be that "he thinks the flow will be so low that the water will evaporate in the P-trap". But as this is a swing check valve and not a spring-loaded check valve, should the water evaporate out of the P-trap, sewer gas will still come up through the open swing check valve that is installed upside down.

Could it be that this plumber doesn't know how a swing check works? Or is he perhaps upselling parts and labor for

I almost think they wanted to protect from overflow if the main backed up. The "plumber" who installed the check most certainly does not understand how a swing check operates.

 

[MicEd69]

@MicEd69, I found the spec sheet for the actual installed product:
https://my.legendvalve.com/ERP2Web/documents/pdf/S-614.pdfIt seems that you caught a mistake on the plumber's part. Indisputable now, right?
I haven't reached out to him for comment yet.
I'll be waiting on the results of the inspection first (scheduled for Monday).
If the inspector won't notice it, I'll point him to the right direction.
I'll update here.
Thank you!

Yes, the thing is that you don't want a check valve there at all. It is to be installed in a vertical run only. But if it were installed where it is with the "This End Up", it would prevent the water from you drain from going into the sewer.

As the swing flap is hanging open, it isn't really hurting anything, except it is wrong. And you don't want someone to "fix" it and turn it right side up as that would cause you problems.

 

[naphtul]

Update:
The inspector came in yesterday. He missed the upside-down check valve.
I pointed his attention to it, but he tried to explain that if there's a blockage it will push the valve close (up).
I explained that it wouldn't close, presented the documentation I shared above, and mentioned that I also called up the company, asked that specific question, and that they explained that it wouldn't work.
He then went ahead and failed the inspection (for the second time).

Today I spoke with the owner of the plumbing company.
He told me that he had suspected that it is the problem and that it was the suggestion of his employee (who did the actual work).
He said he'll fix it without a problem. It is supposed to be next week. I'll update you.

Thank you to everyone who helped detect and confirm the issue. @MicEd69 @dmmsr

 

[naphtul]

Finally, it passed the inspection!
Here are some photos of how it looks now:



Thank you all for your advice! It helped a lot!