Plumbing Forum - Professional & DIY Plumbing Forum > General Plumbing Discussion > Toilets and Sinks > nothing for replacement flange to screw to



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Old 06-12-2011, 05:45 PM   #1
keithpf
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Default nothing for replacement flange to screw to

My bowl was leaking, so I pulled the toilet up and saw that the original cast iron flange was broken. I originally tried a flange repair kit, which was basically a real thin piece of metal that screwed down, but I couldn't get it around the original flange.

So I completely removed the cast iron flange, and eventually found one at home depot to replace it.

This is what I bought.

I installed it, and it's a tight fit, with rubber gasket, and fits all the way down to the floor.

THE PROBLEM: As you can see from the attached image, there's nothing for the new plastic flange to screw to. I may be able to get a couple screws in a couple locations and maybe that's all I'll do.

I thought about creating a small round template made out of 1/4" plywood, and then gluing that down, and then screwing to the plywood. Of course, I worry about the wood rotting, the extra height (1/4"), and the strength of the whole shebang.

The original cast iron flange had a huge lip on it, and so the extra gap didn't really matter. The original flange was not attached in anyway I could see.

What should I do? Help!@#

Thanks
Keith



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Old 06-12-2011, 06:15 PM   #2
Mr_David
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Those suck in my opion. The cast inside the closet bend is really rough and maybe you'll get a wter tight seal.
Turn the flange and use the small slots and not the elongated ones.
secure the new bolts to the fland with nuts & washers.
If you can't get the flange secured to the floor it will pull out of the closet bend eventualy.

Here's how I would do it.

http://www.plumbingforums.com/forum/f19/replacing-cast-iron-water-closet-flange-410/



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Old 06-12-2011, 06:36 PM   #3
phishfood
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I have sometimes managed to drill at an angle and catch the concrete with long Tapcon screws in situations like this. You DO want to attach the flange to the floor, as Mr. David said.

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Old 06-12-2011, 11:04 PM   #4
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plastic flange into cast iron sucks... if you want to keep this trash, drill into the cement and anchor it.. good luck with that..

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Old 06-14-2011, 05:34 PM   #5
keithpf
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I found this helpful.

http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-local/viewnew.pdf/0/4be7752b6e59662ac300acfdedb19094/www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/4de2aedd1119259527170a323cb406a6

which mentions this product:

Sioux Chief

which was specific designed for rotted-out flooring and rough-in holes that were cut too large. This is in essence the same problem I have now.

Thanks.

Keith

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Old 06-14-2011, 08:06 PM   #6
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Amateur night coming so hold on. I'd clean up the area around the flange, then get the bolts in place. Then I'd slather on JB Weld to secure the flange to the floor, leaving the bolts free to move a bit. Allow to dry. I'd then trial fit the bowl, make a pencil line around the perimeter, then apply a thin layer of grout, plaster of paris, or floor patch about 1" wide around the inside of the perimeter, Set the bowl quickly on the wax seal and snug down the bolts. Wipe the excess grout that squeezes out with a wet sponge or rag. Allow to dry, then install tank, etc. A lot of people here have a problem with this. I've done about a dozen or so toilets and have yet to have a problem.
FWIW
YMMV

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Old 06-19-2011, 03:27 AM   #7
keithpf
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Thanks DFB - definitely helps.

I'm trying a modified version of what you suggested. Basically I jbweld'd the steel flange support plate(mentioned in my last post) to the tile. I've got great surface area, and jbweld specific supports steel<->ceramic bond. Once this dries completely, I'm going to drill and attach the plastic flange to the support plate.

The back and center outside edge of the toilet bottom will sit on this plate, which is just slightly thicker than 1/16". It may create a slightly uneven surface for the toilet to sit on and it might wobble. If it doesn't feel rock solid, then I'll use the adhesive/grout as you suggested, and shim if necessary. I understand the idea behind immobilizing the toilet w/ the grout, so I may do that anyways.

thanks,
Keith

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Old 06-19-2011, 02:19 PM   #8
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Personally I prefer a cast iron flange with a poured lead joint when I'm working with cast iron pipe. Especially so when there is nothing much to anchor the flange to the floor.

On a concrete slab floor somtimes the concrete can be cracked up or non-existant around the outside of the pipe were your flange would be secured to the floor. I have cleaned that area out and re-poured it with anchoring cement. Mixed results with that method. You hafta wait until the mix is completely cured or it will not hold a screw.....and it can be so small of a space thats filled its not strong enough to hold screws.

I imagine that an epoxy would be good to fill the space and the screws could be placed through the flange into the wet epoxy and let that cure and it would be strong....thats for sure. I have drilled an existing concrete slab and expoxied rebar into the holes and there is no pulling them out. Very strong but again you must wait for it to cure and on service calls that means another trip. I suppose there are quick drying expoxies available but thats not my business.....I dont carry expoxy around with me.

I have another method I would like to share that works very well and there is almost zero waiting time.

You clean the loose material out between the slab and the pipe and melt up a few pounds of lead and pour the space and pack it. This works well for small spaces that need to be filled. It will hold a screw and will not crack like a concrete patch will and I keep lead on the truck.

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Old 06-20-2011, 04:34 AM   #9
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I finished the project today, on Father's day, right before we were expecting company to celebrate the occasion(umm, fathers day, not the toilet being fixed). I didn't have the balls to actually have people use it because I'm still evaluating the job --- but it went pretty well.

First, that jbweld is pretty neat stuff. It is obviously heavy duty, and I have no doubt that the tile will come off the subfloor before the steel plate comes off the tile. I had placed 80 lbs worth of weights on top of the plate after I applied the jbweld. The finished product was pretty clean and provided a great surface to screw the flange to.

The steel plate, approximately 1/16th+ in depth (.080?), was easily drilled with enough force and a new drill bit. The screws I used to attach the flange to that steel plate really pulled the flange tight to the steel. It was a fantastic surface.

I was worried about using the wax seal because I've never done this before. I placed the seal on the flange, and then used the straws on the johnny bolt trick to make sure that I was hitting center-to-center. I applied force and some twisting pressure to ensure the wax got distributed somewhat. I tightened up the bolts and reassembled.

No leaks that I can see -- I have not and likely will not grout the edge of the toilet.

My mistake was using an extended wax kit instead of a regular. There is too much wax and plastic that in essence can't escape, and it's preventing me from bringing the toilet in the back all the way to the floor. It's close enough and I will likely eventually caulk around the entire base -- once I'm sure it's not leaking.

My only real concern is that the plastic flange may not be sealing 100% to the cast iron drain. The flange specifically says this is ok, and honestly it feel pretty darn tight.

Last but not least, while I fully appreciate that my method wasn't the best way, messing with and pouring lead is simply not an option for regular joe homeowner like me. I'm not interested in debating the ease of this --- but can tell you I was within 5 minutes of calling a plumber to deal with this issue.

Thanks.
Keith



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