water pressure problem following minor repair

[jaw444]

A couple of weeks ago, it was pointed out to me that a valve was leaking in the front of my house. I called my plumber, he came over, tested my water pressure with a gauge, said it was 90, he said that was correct, then replaced a worn out regulator valve and the leak was stopped. But from that day on, my water pressure is noticeably weaker. I called the plumber to see if this was just an adjustment of the pressure that i could do myself. He said he thought the regulator might be bad and would need to come out to look at it.

My question is, could just replacing a regulator valve cause a weakening of water pressure?

thanks for any info

 

[johnjh2o]

It could be the new PRV needs adjusting. Or the old one wasn't working and you have become use to the the higher pressure. 90 PSI is to high. The new valve should reduce the pressure to 60-70 PSI.

John

 

[jaw444]

thanks for the reply. The plumber mentioned a range of what the pressure should be and 90 was right in the middle.

The problem is, the pressure was just right before the repair, it wasn't just that i was used to it, it's like it's been in other places i've lived or visit. Now, it's not sufficient. With just toilet paper, the two toilets have a hard time getting it all down, sometimes two flushes are needed. The shower is terrible, the water doesn't penetrate my hair. It was OK before, borderline, it could not go any lower than it was but it was OK. It was much less than at my previous home (i just moved here in March) but it was OK, i liked it fine.

Are there ways of fixing this? Would just adjusting the pressure up help? Do i need to have the plumber come out again and pay him or can i try adjusting the pressure? I've checked the pressure in the backyard before with a gauge which i have but it looked simpler than what i see in the front, i'm not sure where to put the gauge, there are more than one opening and i really don't know what i'm doing, i don't want to cause any damage.

thanks again

 

[johnjh2o]

You can get a pressure that you can attach to the outside faucet. If you could post a picture of your pressure reducing valve either I or many others on this board will be able to tell you how to adjust it.

John

 

[jaw444]

You can get a pressure that you can attach to the outside faucet. If you could post a picture of your pressure reducing valve either I or many others on this board will be able to tell you how to adjust it.

John

great, thanks. i posted a couple of photos I do have a pressure gauge which a guy who worked on my sprinklers once suggest get. I used it on the faucet in the back but i no longer remember how i used it or how to adjust the pressure. And the one in the front looks kind of different. here are a couple of photos. One difference i see compared to the back is that in the back, there is a handle to turn the water on and off.

 

[johnjh2o]

What was replaced was a pressure relief valve not the pressure reducing valve. Your plumber is probably right. The pressure reducing valve needs to be serviced or replaced. In most cases replacement is the way to go.

John

 

[jaw444]

What was replaced was a pressure relief valve not the pressure reducing valve. Your plumber is probably right. The pressure reducing valve needs to be serviced or replaced. In most cases replacement is the way to go.

John

OK, thanks. I think on the invoice, it just says PRV, same initials either way. It says "Replace PRV on main water line." Is the pressure reducing valve the same thing as the regulator? because that's what he said on the phone, the regulator might be bad. Would a faulty pressure reducing valve cause pressure to be too low, and might replacing or repairing it fix my problem and restore my shower and toilets to their previous OK functioning? Is that a relatively expensive repair? (i mean, replacing the Pressure Relief Valve cost $90. Is replacing the Pressure Reducing Valve a lot more than that, like several hundred, usually?)

Does this mean that there is no adjusting i can do myself to try to fix the problem?

I don't know if this might be related or not, but for a long time i've had really high DWP bills, since around Fall of 2009, and most of the high cost is coming from water. It's illogical that this is all coming from one person, i live here alone. I have automatic sprinklers that run three times a week for 10 minutes. front yard and backyard. These are small yards. I have now turned those off and am running it manually once a week or less to see if that lowers my bill, but it's almost a $700 for two months bill, and the water portion is huge. My next door neighbor with the same kind of house has 6 people living in her house and their bill is around $450. They don't have backyard sprinklers and she says they turn off their front yard sprinklers in the winter and let their grass go brown. Maybe that's why their bill is so much lower? but still, 6 people? They are all home all day. I'm at work all day, don't get home til 7 or 8, i don't have many dishes to wash, don't shower every day, and don't shower for long. I've had plumbers check around and i've DWP check, no idea why it costs so much. Don't know how to find out. it's a 1956 3 bedroom house on about 1600' on a 5300' lot. $683 was my last two month bill, including power, sewage and water.

 

[havasu]

If your water bill is unusually high, I'd recommend shutting off all water sources and check your meter. If the dial is spinning at all, they you should suspect an underground leak.

 

[jaw444]

havasu--what do you mean by shutting off all water sources? i know this is a dumb question but i'm not sure what that means. Do you mean the outside water main thing? once i couldn't turn the sprinklers off because a valve wasn't working, and the sprinkler repair person told me over the phone how to shut that main water switch off to turn the sprinkler off. Is there typically one of those in the backyard too? i haven't seen one. Last Christmas some family members were here and we were talking about my high water bill, and they looked at my meter in the front. the needle was moving. I don't know if i would call it 'spinning.' I called the DWP company and they said they would check it. Nothing came of that. The last time my plumber was here, he checked the meter. The needle was moving a little but not much. I don't know if he turned the water off at all sources. I called DWP again recently because i had a really high bill, then i had the toilet flapper replaced so the toilet stopped running, and the next bill i got was even higher, so i called them and they said they would check it.

 

[jaw444]

the plumber is coming friday to test the pressure and if necessary, to replace the regulator, he said he was going to bring the parts. He said it would take about two hours. I guess that's going to be a few hundred dollars? i wish i had my leaky pressure relief valve back and my good water pressure, at this point.

 

[jaw444]

Am i right in understanding that this is not something i can try to adjust myself to try to get the pressure back where it was?

 

[LiQuId]

What havasu means is that if you have nothing consuming water, No sprinklers running, no fixtures such as sinks, toilet, washing machienes Etc running then your water meter should not be moving as there should be no water passing through it, if it IS spinning under these circumstances then your piping is leaking somewhere and since youève not noticed water damage it would be likely under the house.

the guage you have pictured can be attached to an exterior hose bib, then you turn the hose bib on and read the pressure.

P.Ressure R.eleif V.alves, are ( in canada ) recentlly changed and referred to as Safety releif valves due to the confusion resulting from the 2 valves having the same acronym

 

[LiQuId]

srry for double post.. just saw your recent question..

If you adjust it yourself and have it too high, YOU are responsiblle for the damages done, if a plumber does it they wilkl set it up correctlly and ( though highly unlikely ) if they mess it up their insurance covers you.

I would have it replaced knowing that it will not be an issue further.

 

[jaw444]

Liquid, thanks for the explanations. This was checked a year ago by my friend and the needle was moving but it wasn't spinning. It was checked by the plumber when he was here to replace the PRV and he didn't see any problem--at least i think he would've told me if he saw a problem. It was wet in the area of the DWP gauge, but he said it was probably from the sprinklers.

As for adjusting the pressure myself, ...ok. i was thinking i could adjust it, within whatever the safe range is, and try to get the pressure back up and save on a plumbing bill that i expect will be some hundreds of dollars (2 hours). I was waiting for pay day on the 30th to get a $400 brake job, so that's where i'm coming from. I expect i will have to get the valve replaced so that it won't be an ongoing problem--maybe it's not a problem, on the phone he wasn't sure and said he wanted to come and check it, and he suspected it was the 'regulator.'

I adjusted the pressure on the backyard faucet once, that's why i got the gauge. I think it was the first plumber i had who told me how to do it, it's been a few years since then. I never did it again, so now i don't remember how i did it. As far as just looking at what the pressure is, if i screw the gauge on the bib and turn on the water, i would be able to read the pressure, right? Does it matter how high i turn up the water? just a little, or a lot, or does it matter?

thanks

 

[LiQuId]

yes you would be able to read the pressure, the pressure will be the same either full open or throttled.



Disclaimer: This is IF you choose to adjust water pressure..

attach the guage to the hose bib... open the bib and read the pressure, adjust the PRV. slightly, overdoing this is bad bad news .. screw the screw in to increase pressure, out to decrease, try a quarter turn first and then verify the pressure increase or decrease at the hose bib guage (leave the guage on and the valve open while adjusting the prv )

DO NOT GO IN EXCESS OF 75 PSI under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES the acceptablle limit is actually 79 psi ( 550 kpa ) but you should stay well away from this, it is a common mosconception that pressure is what you seek when dealing with fixtures. I remedy this with this example.

lets pretend you have 2 showers, one is 1 psi and 50 gpm (gallons per minute flow ) the other is 50 psi and 1 gpm ... which shower do you prefer to use..

 

[jaw444]

...

DO NOT GO IN EXCESS OF 75 PSI under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES the acceptablle limit is actually 79 psi ( 550 kpa ) but you should stay well away from this, it is a common mosconception that pressure is what you seek when dealing with fixtures. I remedy this with this example.

lets pretend you have 2 showers, one is 1 psi and 50 gpm (gallons per minute flow ) the other is 50 psi and 1 gpm ... which shower do you prefer to use..

Thanks for this information. So, with the example, i would rather have the first one, 50 gpm (if i understand the terms right). But how do i get or adjust that?

Like, i used have waterpik shower massage for years, and then they stopped making them because of the water restriction laws (i think). they made a compliant version but it was nowhere near what it was before.

At my house, until the recent repair, my shower was just right, but borderline--is this called flow rate? Anyway, whatever it's called, i was calling it pressure, but whatever it's called, it was just right.

since the plumber replaced the leaking relief valve, the shower is not satisfactory.

I have been using a showerhead that increases gpm (i think). It was sold on ebay for a long time, but not any more. That shower head has made the shower work properly, as far as rinsing off soap, getting the hair wet down to the scalp, and feeling good. It is not a really strong shower which is what i had in my apartment, that water came out very forceful in all fixtures. When i moved to my house, i found that the shower was not nearly as strong but i put the special shower head on it, and that increased it just enough.

Now, even with the modified shower head, it's too weak to get my hair wet, it's difficult to get soap off, it doesn't easily reach all over, it's a poor experience, it takes longer, which probably means it uses more water, and i just want it to be fixed back like it was.

I appreciate any information that can help me with this. The plumber is coming today and i don't want to pay him hundreds of dollars and still have the shower be like it is now, and that worries me. I had the whole house repiped believing that the pressure or flow rates would be better but really saw no change. that was a lot more than a few hundred, so i wish i knew ways of giving things the best chance to work out right.

I wish i could fix this myself--it's not a good feeling when right after a repair, i have a worse problem. But i take your words to heart and don't want to create more problems by doing something wrong. If i adjust the pressure myself, i will be very careful.

thanks very much, i was watching some you tube videos where they showed how to adjust the pressure, but as you say, doing it too much is risky at best so before i would do something like that, i would want to have a lot of info and opinions.

When the plumber comes, can he test the shower and measure the flow rate, and then after the repair, measure it again and make sure it's substantially more? what tool or gauge measures flow rate from a fixture?

 

[havasu]

I'm going to throw in my two cents and if it has been done already, I apologize. It seems as if your primary complaint is the lack of flow in your shower? When anyone works on existing plumbing, the sediment broken free from wrenching follows the path of least resistance.

Have you pulled your shower head to confirm the holes are not blocked with sediment? When I re-piped my house a few years ago, all of the sediment went directly into the shower valves and shower head, completely stopping the flow. Ten minutes later, after pulling the valve and shower head apart, I was back to great flow.

 

[jaw444]

I'm going to throw in my two cents and if it has been done already, I apologize. It seems as if your primary complaint is the lack of flow in your shower? When anyone works on existing plumbing, the sediment broken free from wrenching follows the path of least resistance.

Have you pulled your shower head to confirm the holes are not blocked with sediment? When I re-piped my house a few years ago, all of the sediment went directly into the shower valves and shower head, completely stopping the flow. Ten minutes later, after pulling the valve and shower head apart, I was back to great flow.

Havasu, thanks for that info! The plumber did come and right away he saw that the valve with the big black handle that turns on and off the water to the house was almost all the way closed--so apparently that's how it was left when he came out the last time to fix the leaky relief valve. So no repair was needed, just opening (or closing?) the valve. I didn't check the shower because i would need to get into the shower to test it, but the sink faucet in that bathroom normally came out too strong and i always would be careful to only turn it on a little to avoid splashing, but after the problem started, it came out very weakly, so i just tested that and it was back like before. if the shower is still weaker than before, i will do what you described! It's so good to have some knowledge.

btw he checked my pressure. The City pressure was 120 and the house pressure was 70.

 

[havasu]

Your water pressure is more than adequate. Sounds like you got this problem licked. Let us know what, if anything else you had to do to increase your pressure to the shower. This forum is read by numerous others who usually have similar problems and your responses are appreciated by all!

 

[LiQuId]

glad to hear that you've remedied the problem, the water that comes out of a fixture is expressed in
GPM. ( gallons per minute ) and is referred to also as flow rate, and a half throttled valve would definatelly affect the flow rate.

thanks for the feedback