Tub drain fitting leaking how to remove?

[ejlindahl]

While redoing the drain run for my tub on the floor above I, of course, jiggled the tub drain fitting while installing the new (removable) ABS P-trap. The drain fitting was not very snug. Maybe 75 years of time has degraded the sealing washer and/or plumbers putty to make it looser than I would have expected. Now with just an inch of water in the tub it drips several drops a second. It never used to leak before I "touched" it.

If all the framing was open on the floor above I'd just remove and rebed the overflow pipe/drain fitting assembly. The framing is open underneath but there is a 2 x 4 sill plate and sub floor close to the overflow down pipe as well as the brass compression ring Tee that connects the drain pipe to the overflow pipe above and the P-trap below. I am not sure I can get the assembly off without a lot of demolition on the upper floor.

If I could unscrew the drain fitting from under the tub I would do that and work a new sealing (rubber?) washer and/or plumbers putty onto the mating surfaces and retighten it all up. The problem with this is that I am not sure how this drain plug fitting is even screwed onto the tub.

Beneath the tub drain hole is a nice cast brass receiving ELL with a 1.5" brass pipe leading horizontally into the Tee. This horizontal pipe also has a rod in it that actuates a pop-up stopper in the drain plug fitting, much like the common pop up of a bathroom sink. (this is not the same tub drain stopper that I have seen before that has a 1.5" diameter cylinder that lifts up and down within the overflow pipe.) Inside the tub is a smooth chromed brass flanged drain ring "plug". I assume this flanged drain ring plug is male and is screwed/threaded onto the female cast ELL fitting beneath the tub, but there is no obvious "place to put a wrench" to unscrew the smooth flange drain ring plug. (I don't think I have to remove the pop up actuating rod to do this though). The cast brass ELL has a couple flats to get a large crescent wrench on but how do you hold onto the flange ring drain plug inside the tub to unscrew it?

This house was built in 1941 and has all the original plumbing fixtures and they are all American Standard so I assume the tub drain is also made by them.

Can anyone tell me how to separate/unscrew the top chrome part of the tub drain ring plug from the underneath cast brass ELL part?

Alternatively I am thinking about using a crevice seeking/capillary flowing sealer that marine stores have for sealing small leaks of all kinds; (Captain Tolleys). Its package has 8 pictures of applications including a kitchen sink but I'm not sure this means its good for sealing plumbing, (they just mention kitchen sinks and counters in the text). I'm also concerned that if I use this sealant that it will (glue) make it harder to separate the top flange ring drain plug from the underneath part of the tub drain fitting. I suppose if I apply the sealant just to the under tub fitting it will not reach the threads and so this may not make removal harder. Many people rave about this Captain Tolley's crevice sealant.

Thank you for any advice on:

How to unscrew the tub drain fitting?

Should I use the crevice seeking sealant?

Eric

 

[frodo]

remove #1 and 2

unscrew #3 from the tub.


if waste an over flow is 75 years old, replace whole thing

you need a tub tool

 

[phishfood]

At 75 years old, you are probably not going to get it to unthread. A cutoff blade on a Dremel from the top, just underneath the top lip. I would replace the entire waste and overflow assembly.

 

[Mr_David]

Can you post a picture or 2?
Just use the paper clip on tool bar "attachments" and attach them to post

if the ceiling is open below just replace the whole thing.

remove the over flow cover and cut the flange like phish suggested the whole thing will drop out with the p-trap removed

 

[Mr_David]

You have a stopper like this?

there are a couple of nubs inside the drain flange. I use a piece of 1/4"falt steel bar trimmed to the needed inside diameter of drain. the use a big adjustable wrench on the bar to twist out the flange. it will come out or the brass tube between the ell and the tee will break.

 

[ejlindahl]

Short story; I am going to give one try with Frodos tub tool, or Mr Davids flat bar to unscrew the tub drain plug. There are nubs in there, now that I look. They can be seen in the picture.

If it doesn't unscrew I'm gonna seal the underside fitting of the tub drain with that crevis sealant, Capt. Tolleys. The cieling will be open for a few months while I work on other stuff so if no drips happen in that time I'll call it good. If it does drip then I'll get persuasive and/or use a dremel and drop it all out like Mr David suggested above, (I'd forgotten how easy it is to unfasten the overflow tube from its cover plate in the tub. For some reason I was thinking I'd have to undo all the slip joints at the Tee which would be hard/impossible due to the tight clearances.

The cieling is in a closet and it will have an access hatch that is as big as the opening in the cieling that I have now. So even if it leaks a decade later I will have made it easy to still drop out the whole assembly and replace it then.

No way am I gonna replace the tub at this time. If there are problems down the road it will mean a whole bathroom tear out and remodel. I can accept that later on, but my hands are too full for now.

Thanks again for all your great advice. I think I have a plan that will get er done.

PS The pop up drain plug I have is not like any pictured above. It most closely resembles Mr Davids diagram except the stopper is popped up by a rotational half turn/twist of the tub lever. Some how this moves a horizontal rod up and down under the drain plug, but it does not teeter totter like with a lav sink pop up pivot ball. The rod moves in a horizontal parallel plane up and down. The rod can be seen in the closeup picture. The rod moves the stopper up and down. Mr Davids diagram shows an assembly of flat brass pieces, not a rod like I have. There may be a rocker in my assembly inside the horizontal drain tube but, obviously I can't see inside there. The stopper simply pulls straight out with little effort. This is imaterial to my problem though.

 

[Mr_David]

That's an old American Standard. Never seen one like that one though, with the extended cavity on the shoe ( the part that the chrome flange screws into).
Looks to be in good shape for it's age. Don't make 'em like that any more.

 

[ejlindahl]

Yep, original 1941 fixtures & pink tile. I didn't notice "Standard" stamped into the chrome flange until after I took the picture. The brass tubes & Tee sound/feel real solid when I tap them with a box wrench.

The pop up rod goes past the chrome flange drain plug and into that extended shoe. Extending the rod in there keeps it centered in the drain plug, (preventing it from going from side to side), as it goes up and down.

 

[Mr_David]

It's cool the things you see in a picture that you didn't see with the eye.

Like all the baby spiders in this web.

 

[gendow]

These are pictures of different tub drain tools. My best guess would be the tool that I encircled. It will expand and grab the "ears," and twist off.

 

[ejlindahl]

I've never seen baby spiders spread around like that, I'll have to take a closer look next time I put my face thru a web…..

Thanks for the tool pics Glendow. Quite a variety. My brother had one of them but it did not lossen the plug and seemed to start to round off the nubs so I stopped. The expanding one looks like a good option.

 

[Mr_David]

Try heating the shoe ( part under the tub ) with a torch. Not to much. Just enough to get the shoe to expand a little and possibly break its 74yr old bond.

Good luck.

 

[ejlindahl]

I was thinking about using some heat. Thanks.