Toilet Flange leak

[OutHouse]

I need some help figuring out what to do to get my toilet from leaking. The toilet was installed about 20 years ago and I started to see the wood around the base of the toilet turning dark. I removed the toilet and took a picture of the flange with the wax seal. (Flange&Wax.jpg) A small amount of water had been leaking around the flange area and running down the PVC pipe to the floor below.

I removed all of the wax from the toilet base and flange. (Toilet_Flange.jpg) When I test fitted the toilet on the flange, I found that the toilet did not sit flat on the floor. Toilet exit contacts the flange/PVC pipe, rocking. Is there a way to modify the flange so the toilet can sit flat on the floor and seal with a standard wax ring? Or is there some other issue? Or other solutions?

I did install a new standard wax ring and shim the toilet, but it started leaking again after a few months.

Is it possible my toilet can have a crack? What is the best way to check for them?



Flange&Wax.jpg


Toilet_Flange.jpg

 

[MrInfoPhilly]

Use a wax ring with the sleeve. Retry...
Either improper installation or cracked toilet....

Retry with a wax ring that has sleeve

 

[OutHouse]

Use a wax ring with the sleeve. Retry...
Either improper installation or cracked toilet....

Retry with a wax ring that has sleeve

Thanks for the reply. I don't think there is enough room for a wax ring with sleeve. The toilet hits the flange with nothing installed. I did try a Fluidmaster 7530P8 better than wax universal seal and the toilet was way off the floor. I will take a look at the wax ring with sleeve to be sure.
What is the best way to check for a cracked toilet? Put dye in the toilet? If so, what type of dye.

​

 

[MrInfoPhilly]

Thanks for the reply. I don't think there is enough room for a wax ring with sleeve. The toilet hits the flange with nothing installed. I did try a Fluidmaster 7530P8 better than wax universal seal and the toilet was way off the floor. I will take a look at the wax ring with sleeve to be sure.
What is the best way to check for a cracked toilet? Put dye in the toilet? If so, what type of dye.

​

Get a plug., to plug the toilet and fill the bowl with water to see if toilet is cracked.

I don't see how a wax ring and sleeve doesn't fit.

 

[MicEd69]

The toilet hits the flange with nothing installed.

As this is the case, you need to cut the flange off and install another one at a lower elevation. Shims could work as you found out for a time, but it is difficult to get them to stay in place and once one moves, you will have a leak. You probably will need to cut the flooring out from under the closet flange, so the new flange can be installed at the same elevation as the top of the floor.

You can use a Dremel Tool or a vibrating saw to cut the flange off from the inside. There are closet flanges that will slide into the existing pipe that should provide you with a flange at the correct elevation. Some glue in, but I have used a couple of these with great success when the sewer line was in concrete and very solid. As the flange is not glued in, the sewer line needs to be very well supported in place with no movement whatsoever.



Then use a wax ring without a sleeve. You can get thicker wax rings than standard, and I've used them when needed. Any excess wax will just compress and squeeze out sealing quite well.

 

[OutHouse]

As this is the case, you need to cut the flange off and install another one at a lower elevation. Shims could work as you found out for a time, but it is difficult to get them to stay in place and once one moves, you will have a leak. You probably will need to cut the flooring out from under the closet flange, so the new flange can be installed at the same elevation as the top of the floor.

You can use a Dremel Tool or a vibrating saw to cut the flange off from the inside. There are closet flanges that will slide into the existing pipe that should provide you with a flange at the correct elevation. Some glue in, but I have used a couple of these with great success when the sewer line was in concrete and very solid. As the flange is not glued in, the sewer line needs to be very well supported in place with no movement whatsoever.

View attachment 39323

Then use a wax ring without a sleeve. You can get thicker wax rings than standard, and I've used them when needed. Any excess wax will just compress and squeeze out sealing quite well.

MicEd69,

Thanks for your response and additional information about the flange. As you might expect, I was trying not to cut the hardwood floor and existing plumbing but that would create enough room. Lowering the flange is the right thing to do for sure. Do you see variations in toilet exits as far as size and shape? Could a different/newer toilet solve my problem?

In preparations for removing the flange, what equipment would you recommend.

• Which Dremel Tool and attachment?
• What tool do you find works best for removing hardwood flooring so I can lower the flange?
• My toilet piping is not concreted in so I am assuming I would glue it in a closet flange. Which one do you recommend for this installation? How far down/pipe do you cut-off when replacing the flange?

 

[TomFOhio]

Can you take a picture of what kind of room you have under the floor.

 

[MicEd69]

Do you see variations in toilet exits as far as size and shape? Could a different/newer toilet solve my problem?

I'm not sure. I think most are pretty standard. You may want to measure yours and see if it happens to have a longer drain connection for some reason. But closet flanges should not be much higher than the finished floor elevation.

Which Dremel Tool and attachment?
Something like these blades.





What tool do you find works best for removing hardwood flooring so I can lower the flange?

An oscillating multi-tool something like this.


My toilet piping is not concreted in so I am assuming I would glue it in a closet flange. Which one do you recommend for this installation? How far down/pipe do you cut-off when replacing the flange?

Something like this. After you get it, you will see how far down you will need to cut the drain line. Only cut it down such that you can get the closet flange down to the floor level.

 

[OutHouse]

Can you take a picture of what kind of room you have under the floor.

I will try and post a picture tomorrow. It looks like I have enough room (pipe length) to install a PVC Connector Coupler or etc. if needed. I do have limited access to the area.

 

[OutHouse]

Do you see variations in toilet exits as far as size and shape? Could a different/newer toilet solve my problem?

I'm not sure. I think most are pretty standard. You may want to measure yours and see if it happens to have a longer drain connection for some reason. But closet flanges should not be much higher than the finished floor elevation.

Which Dremel Tool and attachment?
Something like these blades.

View attachment 39340



What tool do you find works best for removing hardwood flooring so I can lower the flange?

An oscillating multi-tool something like this.

View attachment 39341
My toilet piping is not concreted in so I am assuming I would glue it in a closet flange. Which one do you recommend for this installation? How far down/pipe do you cut-off when replacing the flange?

Something like this. After you get it, you will see how far down you will need to cut the drain line. Only cut it down such that you can get the closet flange down to the floor level.

View attachment 39342

Great information and very helpful.
Thanks!!

 

[TomFOhio]

I will try and post a picture tomorrow. It looks like I have enough room (pipe length) to install a PVC Connector Coupler or etc. if needed. I do have limited access to the area.

Thats what I was wondering. Cut the pipe below and put in a coupling and then a new closet flange to whatever height you need.

 

[OutHouse]

Thanks to everyone for the provided advice. I have a good vision of what to do now. I will tackle this project in the middle of next week. Got to finish the projects I have already started first.

 

[gagecalman]

I'm not a plumber so take this for what it's worth. The pro's can correct me if I'm wrong.
I was always told to mount the flange on top of the finished floor which yours is so there must be something else going on. Maybe you have an odd toilet.

Before replacing the flange look at the following with the toilet set with no wax ring:
How much of a gap is there between the floor and toilet and why won't is sit on the floor.
Measure the toilet horn and see if it's binding on the ID of the pipe that's coming up into the flange. If it is maybe you can relieve the edge of the pipe a little until the toilet sits in the floor.
If it's sitting on the mounting rim of the flange where the screws are there's not much you can do. As MicEd69 stated you can replace it but you will have to cut the floor to set it lower.
Another option would be to install some vinyl flooring.
I know you stated that you have a good vision of what to do I thought I'd give you some more to read.