Never Ending Septic Tank Issues - No Clear Solution! HELP!!! I am going broke! :(

[Abbi]

There is a huge backstory to this post but I will attempt to keep it short, sweet and to the point.

I bought a home years ago in foreclosure. Therefore, no records of any sort of regular upkeep, outstanding issues or anything of that nature. In fact, the house was sold to me as "City Sewer" only later did I find out (through a series of very unfortunate events) that the home had a 1000 gallon septic tank.
The home was built in 1985.
There are 5 of us in my family (4 of us girls) and I am a private Chef who recently (no need to explain why) am no longer preparing meals in my clients homes, but rather my own.

Over the years septic issues have plagued my family. I can never run more than one load of laundry, we have to space out showers, only run the dishwasher at night, etc. etc. Oh, and, none of this can happen if it rains.
The first plumber that I had come out years ago said that my field lines need replacing. He never dug them up or anything of the sort. The system simply backed up into the downstairs shower. Mind you, this happened after days of rain and me railing out about 6 loads of laundry (unaware at this point that the home was on septic). I did not have the money and simply had the tank pumped knowing this issue would return sooner than I may like. Thankfully a couple years went by before it did.

Fast forward to November of 2021 when the system again backed up. I suspected a clog as new symptoms appeared (gurgling sink in downstairs bathroom and water being sucked out of downstairs toilet.
Again, I had a plumber come out and was told that there had been a grease clog at the entry point to tank but that the main issue had to do with the pipe leading to the field and dirty lines. I received the following quote:

"Pumping - Pump 1,000 gallon - $325
Pumping - Overfilled Tank $100
Drain Field - Tail out with Baffle Tee - $1,875
Drain Field - Hydro Jet Drain Field - $475
Drain Field - Back Pump Drain Field - $655
___________________________________________
Total : $3,430

Again, I did not have the money for all of that (remember I have 3 elementary aged girls and this was just before Christmas).

Three days ago, after a solid 7 days of heavy rain my system backed up again. I had hoped it was all the rain and a super busy work week adding tons of extra water to the system and so I gave it a break.
Now, after multiple super sunny warm days and continuing to let the system rest my sink is gurgling when I flush the toilet upstairs or downstairs and the water in my downstairs toilet continuously gets sucked out of toilet. I am literally scared to flush the toilet and do not know what to do.

So, I guess my question is, could this plumber really know that replacing that one pipe out and hydrojetting the lines will fix the issue? What if there are tree roots, cracked pipes, unusable soil...etc etc.? Is there a possibility that hydrojetting the old pipes could damage them causing further issues and costing more money? Could this be a "vent" issue? I do not even know what that means exactly, just read about it.

I am so at a loss here and do not know what to do. I will end up having to finance the repairs with a high apr and I just want to believe that when I do the system will finally function properly.

Can anyone help? Pleaase? Perhaps you have heard of a similar situation and solution that I might try...any and all advice is so very appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Twowaxhack]

Replace the drain field after having a percolation test done.

Going broke once is better than going broke every couple of years.

That’s my advice.

 

[Abbi]

Replace the drain field after having a percolation test done.

That’s my advice.

Thank you! Is the cost of that in about the same ball park as what I was quoted for hydrojetting and all the other stuff mentioned? To your knowledge, I realize that prices may vary.

BTW thank you SO much for your prompt response!
Made me feel hopeful that I may find a solution!

 

[Abbi]

Replace the drain field after having a percolation test done.

Going broke once is better than going broke every couple of years.

That’s my advice.

I am sorry to sound ignorant, but I did not know what a perc test was so I googled it. What happens if it fails though?!?!? Then what?! OMG, now I am panicking.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I am sorry to sound ignorant, but I did not know what a perc test was so I googled it. What happens if it fails though?!?!? Then what?! OMG, now I am panicking.

Price range is $6500 - $20,000 for septic drain field replacement here.

 

[Stout Mechanical]

There is a huge backstory to this post but I will attempt to keep it short, sweet and to the point.

I bought a home years ago in foreclosure. Therefore, no records of any sort of regular upkeep, outstanding issues or anything of that nature. In fact, the house was sold to me as "City Sewer" only later did I find out (through a series of very unfortunate events) that the home had a 1000 gallon septic tank.
The home was built in 1985.
There are 5 of us in my family (4 of us girls) and I am a private Chef who recently (no need to explain why) am no longer preparing meals in my clients homes, but rather my own.

Over the years septic issues have plagued my family. I can never run more than one load of laundry, we have to space out showers, only run the dishwasher at night, etc. etc. Oh, and, none of this can happen if it rains.
The first plumber that I had come out years ago said that my field lines need replacing. He never dug them up or anything of the sort. The system simply backed up into the downstairs shower. Mind you, this happened after days of rain and me railing out about 6 loads of laundry (unaware at this point that the home was on septic). I did not have the money and simply had the tank pumped knowing this issue would return sooner than I may like. Thankfully a couple years went by before it did.

Fast forward to November of 2021 when the system again backed up. I suspected a clog as new symptoms appeared (gurgling sink in downstairs bathroom and water being sucked out of downstairs toilet.
Again, I had a plumber come out and was told that there had been a grease clog at the entry point to tank but that the main issue had to do with the pipe leading to the field and dirty lines. I received the following quote:

"Pumping - Pump 1,000 gallon - $325
Pumping - Overfilled Tank $100
Drain Field - Tail out with Baffle Tee - $1,875
Drain Field - Hydro Jet Drain Field - $475
Drain Field - Back Pump Drain Field - $655
___________________________________________
Total : $3,430

Again, I did not have the money for all of that (remember I have 3 elementary aged girls and this was just before Christmas).

Three days ago, after a solid 7 days of heavy rain my system backed up again. I had hoped it was all the rain and a super busy work week adding tons of extra water to the system and so I gave it a break.
Now, after multiple super sunny warm days and continuing to let the system rest my sink is gurgling when I flush the toilet upstairs or downstairs and the water in my downstairs toilet continuously gets sucked out of toilet. I am literally scared to flush the toilet and do not know what to do.

So, I guess my question is, could this plumber really know that replacing that one pipe out and hydrojetting the lines will fix the issue? What if there are tree roots, cracked pipes, unusable soil...etc etc.? Is there a possibility that hydrojetting the old pipes could damage them causing further issues and costing more money? Could this be a "vent" issue? I do not even know what that means exactly, just read about it.

I am so at a loss here and do not know what to do. I will end up having to finance the repairs with a high apr and I just want to believe that when I do the system will finally function properly.

Can anyone help? Pleaase? Perhaps you have heard of a similar situation and solution that I might try...any and all advice is so very appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it was sold as city sewer, check to see if sewer is available. If so connect to city and abandon the septic

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Abbi,

Bear with me as I tell you my three experiences with septic systems.

1. Massachusetts-Family Home. When the old family homestead was sold in 1995, the town requires a septic test. The town inspector came out, did his thing, and it failed the test. As my sister was the only person living in this home for the past eight years, (3,000 square foot colonial) the septic load was extremely light. Instead of writing it up as a failure, he suggested what the problem may be, suggested a couple of septic firms that could review, and said "have them take a look and call me back". Turned out that the pipe entering the tank was displaced. Dodged a bullet on that one. Had it repaired pretty inexpensively, called the guy back and it passed.

2. Central Michigan-Weekend Home 2016. We had a 1700 square foot ranch on a lake. Very sandy soil that absorbed well. After some issues, the septic guy came out and noted that there were several cracks in the system: one as the line from the home entered the tank. He replaced the cracked pipe. The second was at the exit of the tank by the header to the drain field lines. The header was so clogged with roots that he abandoned this side of the drainfield, and connected to a second header he added at the end. The soil was so porous that he said nothing gets more than a few feet down the 20' drain lines. Just about $500 to fix all that. Passed the county test when we sold the home. The least invasive means was the best there; for in that county in Michigan, any major work on a septic system or any additions to the home require an "above grade" drain field. This means a pump system from the tank to go up a couple of feet, tank alarms, etc. The drain field lines lay on a grade-level gravel bed, and then are covered in a mound generally 3' high. It's unsightly and totally destroys your front yard. We avoided a major issue there with a clever septic guy.

3. Perc Test-North Carolina, 2019. Here's where it got interesting. We were on tap to buy a ½ acre lot along Lake Norman in Iredell County, north of Charlotte. County requirements for new septic require a "pit test" for percolation; you have to have a backhoe, and dig pits and the county does the testing. It's a costly procedure; hiring the builder to supervise, the backhoe operator, the county permits, etc. all ended up costing about $5,000 and that's BEFORE any septic building. The results of our heavy red clay soil here were disturbing. Due to the need to have TWO complete drain fields (one functioning and one repair field) as well as THREE septic tanks (primary and two settling tanks), plus all the setback requirements meant the building envelope on the property would only allow a 3 bedroom home of 2,000 square foot size. That was out of the question for us. More importantly, the septic field as designed by the county and verified by a soils engineer was disturbing: each field was 240' of double stack T&J panels, requiring massive excavation and install, in trenches 36" deep. So in total, that would have been 480' of these drain lines. We abandoned the project, as that was too limiting. As a follow on, someone came and built a smaller home and did an engineered system with a lift. We were probably talking about $25,000 for the system for ours, I bet the new folks put more into the engineered system. http://www.tjpanel.com

The bottom line for you is your septic now doesn't work. The fact that rainfall and wet ground affects your system indicates there's a huge issue. The only way to solve this at this property now is to connect to a city sewer (not going to be cheap, these tie-ins are generally costly) if possible, or re-engineer your system. To re-engineer your system your first call should be to the county or town (AHJ; authority having jurisdiction) and ask them about current perc-test requirements for the size of your home. Also, get the name of a local and respected soils engineer who can work with you. In our case with the lot (#3 above) we knew nothing of the rules and laws etc. and we hired an experienced builder to manage the testing for us. It was his excavator that did the pits, he was the one who filed the permit requests, etc. We were out of state at the time and had no knowledge or relationship with anyone down here save for our RE agent. Helps to have someone "in the know".

Best of luck!

 

[Abbi]

Price range is $6500 - $20,000 for septic drain field replacement here.

Eeek!!!!

 

[Abbi]

If it was sold as city sewer, check to see if sewer is available. If so connect to city and abandon the septic

Thank you for your reply! City is available, but for our particular lot it will be insanely costly and will require multiple pumps.

Had a plumber out yesterday to review our options. We may try and re-engineer a new field line system, but depending on perc test and further inspections it may be necessary to relocate septic system entirely (including new tank) at which point we may need to re-evaluate connecting to city. smh

 

[Abbi]

Abbi,

Bear with me as I tell you my three experiences with septic systems.

1. Massachusetts-Family Home. When the old family homestead was sold in 1995, the town requires a septic test. The town inspector came out, did his thing, and it failed the test. As my sister was the only person living in this home for the past eight years, (3,000 square foot colonial) the septic load was extremely light. Instead of writing it up as a failure, he suggested what the problem may be, suggested a couple of septic firms that could review, and said "have them take a look and call me back". Turned out that the pipe entering the tank was displaced. Dodged a bullet on that one. Had it repaired pretty inexpensively, called the guy back and it passed.

2. Central Michigan-Weekend Home 2016. We had a 1700 square foot ranch on a lake. Very sandy soil that absorbed well. After some issues, the septic guy came out and noted that there were several cracks in the system: one as the line from the home entered the tank. He replaced the cracked pipe. The second was at the exit of the tank by the header to the drain field lines. The header was so clogged with roots that he abandoned this side of the drainfield, and connected to a second header he added at the end. The soil was so porous that he said nothing gets more than a few feet down the 20' drain lines. Just about $500 to fix all that. Passed the county test when we sold the home. The least invasive means was the best there; for in that county in Michigan, any major work on a septic system or any additions to the home require an "above grade" drain field. This means a pump system from the tank to go up a couple of feet, tank alarms, etc. The drain field lines lay on a grade-level gravel bed, and then are covered in a mound generally 3' high. It's unsightly and totally destroys your front yard. We avoided a major issue there with a clever septic guy.

3. Perc Test-North Carolina, 2019. Here's where it got interesting. We were on tap to buy a ½ acre lot along Lake Norman in Iredell County, north of Charlotte. County requirements for new septic require a "pit test" for percolation; you have to have a backhoe, and dig pits and the county does the testing. It's a costly procedure; hiring the builder to supervise, the backhoe operator, the county permits, etc. all ended up costing about $5,000 and that's BEFORE any septic building. The results of our heavy red clay soil here were disturbing. Due to the need to have TWO complete drain fields (one functioning and one repair field) as well as THREE septic tanks (primary and two settling tanks), plus all the setback requirements meant the building envelope on the property would only allow a 3 bedroom home of 2,000 square foot size. That was out of the question for us. More importantly, the septic field as designed by the county and verified by a soils engineer was disturbing: each field was 240' of double stack T&J panels, requiring massive excavation and install, in trenches 36" deep. So in total, that would have been 480' of these drain lines. We abandoned the project, as that was too limiting. As a follow on, someone came and built a smaller home and did an engineered system with a lift. We were probably talking about $25,000 for the system for ours, I bet the new folks put more into the engineered system. http://www.tjpanel.com

The bottom line for you is your septic now doesn't work. The fact that rainfall and wet ground affects your system indicates there's a huge issue. The only way to solve this at this property now is to connect to a city sewer (not going to be cheap, these tie-ins are generally costly) if possible, or re-engineer your system. To re-engineer your system your first call should be to the county or town (AHJ; authority having jurisdiction) and ask them about current perc-test requirements for the size of your home. Also, get the name of a local and respected soils engineer who can work with you. In our case with the lot (#3 above) we knew nothing of the rules and laws etc. and we hired an experienced builder to manage the testing for us. It was his excavator that did the pits, he was the one who filed the permit requests, etc. We were out of state at the time and had no knowledge or relationship with anyone down here save for our RE agent. Helps to have someone "in the know".

Best of luck!

Thank you SO much for sharing your experiences and knowledge with me! I really appreciate it!

We had a septic crew come out yesterday to provide some relief as after posting this thread the system backed up into the downstairs shower.

After digging up the tank, pumping it and replacing the baffle tee we made the decision to go ahead and have the drain field lines hydro-jetted since we had no track record of when or if it had ever been done. This is where things took a horrid turn for the worse.
We discovered that the pipe was laying on gravel (I guess that used to be a good thing or maybe it is...I don't know my brain was overloaded with surprises and info yesterday and I am a bit foggy on the details). Upon excavating 43 feet from the output of the tank itself suddenly the pipe hit a dead end at a literal gravel pit. Surprise! There is no drain field. Instead, a gravel pit. Which, according to the technician is actually a great and highly effective alternative to a drain field. However, they are only great until the day they "no longer are." Once the gravels becomes fully saturated with sludge it will no longer function as an effective "home" for the waste.

We live in Georgia and in the county that we live in, come to find out, they no longer allow this type of field to be re-installed. Meaning once it fails a new field must be engineered following a slew of specifics regarding placement from the home, distance from any creek (as luck would have it a runoff creek was installed on the property at some point which according to this particular tech will be deemed an actual creek), amount of line per room, etc. etc. Sounds like you are familiar with all of the details as they pertain to septic system installs (at least you are far more experienced than I!).

So, basically at this point we have two options. We Hail Mary and get a perc test, cross our fingers it passes; cross them again that I can convince an inspector that the creek is not an actual creek but rather a runoff stream from higher elevation and it stays dry most of the warmer and dryer months; and then have a new drain field installed wherever it may be possible. However, the tech believes that the county will likely require that we move the entire system to the other side of the lot meaning a whole new engineered system including a tank and pumps. Which, according to him should make us strongly consider option two...hook up the city.
The problem with the city hook up is that the proximity of the hook up to the house is VERY far. It is down hill, across said "creek", then a very steep uphill to the street aprx 500 yards away.
This option will be VERY expensive.

My husband and I are both Chefs and unfortunately for us the food industry is not a very lucrative business to be in. We have three young girls that will soon be showering much more and much longer than they do now (lol) and thus the city option is far more appealing. However, the price tag is far more off putting to me. Quite frankly I do not know how we would do it. <sigh>

What a mess!

 

[Twowaxhack]

If it backed up right after having the tank pumped then the problem is the house drain to the tank, not the tank or the drain field lines.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

So sorry for all this Abbi...but it is what it is. Without a proper septic system in place you cannot even consider selling the house, as it wouldn't be considered habitable.

The municipal connection fees--just the permit to make the connection--are generally costly enough (over $5,000 per lot here, not including all the up front plan review fees and engineering work that has to be done in advance) without even considering the cost of what you need to make that connection. That is, all the piping and pumping systems.

My advice, for what its worth, is to get a septic firm that is well known and well respected in the area. Contact the AHJ for recommendations: they'll know whose work passes first time, and those "corner cutters" who get on the shi-list. They may need to consult a soils engineer familiar with the geology of the area.

Sadly it's not going to be easy or cheap.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I’d be on the shi-list

 

[Birkoff]

If its any comfort, your charges are 1/3 what they are in Oregon. I've had two systems 'fail' and both eventually require a rottor-rooting the drain field. Except for the pump, all the sleuthing between the pump and drainfield was time and money misspent, both times.

 

[Abbi]

If it backed up right after having the tank pumped then the problem is the house drain to the tank, not the tank or the drain field lines.

Thank you for your reply!

There was a grease clog at the end of the pipe leading into tank that led the system to back up after it was pumped. I am assuming due to over filled tank as a result of field lines being non-exsistent.

 

[Abbi]

So sorry for all this Abbi...but it is what it is. Without a proper septic system in place you cannot even consider selling the house, as it wouldn't be considered habitable.

The municipal connection fees--just the permit to make the connection--are generally costly enough (over $5,000 per lot here, not including all the up front plan review fees and engineering work that has to be done in advance) without even considering the cost of what you need to make that connection. That is, all the piping and pumping systems.

My advice, for what its worth, is to get a septic firm that is well known and well respected in the area. Contact the AHJ for recommendations: they'll know whose work passes first time, and those "corner cutters" who get on the shi-list. They may need to consult a soils engineer familiar with the geology of the area.

Sadly it's not going to be easy or cheap.

Thank you for your reply.
I have accepted my fate. Sadly.
As for now I am working to line up funds for such a pricey repair. I understand now why the previous owners let the place go in foreclosure. <eye roll>

 

[Abbi]

If its any comfort, your charges are 1/3 what they are in Oregon. I've had two systems 'fail' and both eventually require a rottor-rooting the drain field. Except for the pump, all the sleuthing between the pump and drainfield was time and money misspent, both times.

Thanks for the input! I am sorry to hear that you have had two unfortunate scenarios with failed septic systems. I believe my best option here is to connect to the city. Hopefully they will allow financing!

 

[sawguy]

Abbi, just for the heck of it, check with your homeowners insurance.

 

[Stout Mechanical]

Thank you SO much for sharing your experiences and knowledge with me! I really appreciate it!

We had a septic crew come out yesterday to provide some relief as after posting this thread the system backed up into the downstairs shower.

After digging up the tank, pumping it and replacing the baffle tee we made the decision to go ahead and have the drain field lines hydro-jetted since we had no track record of when or if it had ever been done. This is where things took a horrid turn for the worse.
We discovered that the pipe was laying on gravel (I guess that used to be a good thing or maybe it is...I don't know my brain was overloaded with surprises and info yesterday and I am a bit foggy on the details). Upon excavating 43 feet from the output of the tank itself suddenly the pipe hit a dead end at a literal gravel pit. Surprise! There is no drain field. Instead, a gravel pit. Which, according to the technician is actually a great and highly effective alternative to a drain field. However, they are only great until the day they "no longer are." Once the gravels becomes fully saturated with sludge it will no longer function as an effective "home" for the waste.

We live in Georgia and in the county that we live in, come to find out, they no longer allow this type of field to be re-installed. Meaning once it fails a new field must be engineered following a slew of specifics regarding placement from the home, distance from any creek (as luck would have it a runoff creek was installed on the property at some point which according to this particular tech will be deemed an actual creek), amount of line per room, etc. etc. Sounds like you are familiar with all of the details as they pertain to septic system installs (at least you are far more experienced than I!).

So, basically at this point we have two options. We Hail Mary and get a perc test, cross our fingers it passes; cross them again that I can convince an inspector that the creek is not an actual creek but rather a runoff stream from higher elevation and it stays dry most of the warmer and dryer months; and then have a new drain field installed wherever it may be possible. However, the tech believes that the county will likely require that we move the entire system to the other side of the lot meaning a whole new engineered system including a tank and pumps. Which, according to him should make us strongly consider option two...hook up the city.
The problem with the city hook up is that the proximity of the hook up to the house is VERY far. It is down hill, across said "creek", then a very steep uphill to the street aprx 500 yards away.
This option will be VERY expensive.

My husband and I are both Chefs and unfortunately for us the food industry is not a very lucrative business to be in. We have three young girls that will soon be showering much more and much longer than they do now (lol) and thus the city option is far more appealing. However, the price tag is far more off putting to me. Quite frankly I do not know how we would do it. <sigh>

What a mess!
[/QUOTE
Some areas have grants available to help homeowners with upgrading their spetic systems. These grants Typically require that the replacement is a BAT ( best available technology) system. Many homeowners here in MD get between 10-15k to help them upgrade. I don’t know the specifics , it is funded by the EPA and State

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Abbi—there was a brief mention of “a grease clog at the entrance to the tank”…
You two chefs should remember your home isn’t a restaurant and your kitchen isn’t commercial. No grease traps easily accessible or regularly cleaned. Greases and oils don’t go in the sink—ever—but in the trash. No flaming pans, etc. Cooking in your home is very different than a commercial kitchen!