Kitec, IPEX piping

[txjeff]

I have a new home that was built in 2007 sold by the builder and home inspected, with a lack of inspection of the piping. 10 years later, 2017, a plumber who replaced my water heater, says, "You should sell your home now. You have Kitec piping. After days of research, I now see the piping was recalled in 2005, yet my house was built in 2007. This puzzles me. One plumber, who worked for the now defunct plumber who built my house says, "I think they replaced the fittings with newer ones."

But I can't find anywhere on the internet where that is verified. My fittings say "USA KTC f1974" stamped on the side rim of the fitting, which is screwed on to my garage installed water heater. I have a copper looking band that says XPA stamped on it.

Can anyone confirm that the USA stamped fitting is a safer one than the ones that people say are made in Taiwan? I've heard mixed opinions that, "It's only the fittings that are the problem." Yet there are dozens of sites that say the piping itself is also at risk of splitting or decomposing.

Please help. Thanks.

 

[Matt30]

In my province, you would be hard pressed to find anyone who has done more KiTec replacements than me. I have saw failures in the piping itself, but leaks tend to form more so around the joints, it doesn't matter if it's the crimped joint, or compression. Once the end of the pipe starts to deform, it's game over.

You should definitely not be selling your home because you have KiTec pipe, give that plumber a smack. Failures only tend to occur on high heat applications, say hydronic baseboard heating (180F). Failures on domestic water is rare, but it happens.

Your biggest issue with the KiTec is going to be if you decide to sell your house now. Where I live, it's basically law that you cannot sell the house to another person until the pipe is changed out so some sort of agreement is worked out between the seller and buyer. Usually the seller ends up eating the cost.

I have done replacements where the pipe looks all wrinkled and deformed, others the pipe looks as new as the day it was installed. You could go your entire lifetime and not have a single problem. But if down the road you spring a leak, or want to just be pro active and avoid it all together then you should look at a replacement

 

[CT-18]

The Kitec pipe is typically blue in color for cold water applications and orange in color for hot water applications. The pipe is usually marked with one of the following brand names; Kitec, PlumbBetter, IPEX AQUA, WarmRite, Kitec XPA, AmbioComfort, XPA, KERR Controls or Plomberie Améliorée. Where the fittings are visible look for the words Kitec or KTC on them. The terms CSA B137.9/10 or ATSM F1974 could also indicate that you have a Kitec system. Often, the best places to look for the Kitec system is near the hot water tank or in the mechanical room where the pipe is connected to or exits the walls. Also look under kitchen sinks or bathroom vanities, where the pipe and/or fitting exits the wall.

 

[txjeff]

Thanks for the replies. I know it's Kitec pipe because the plumber who changed my water heater recognized it immediately. Yes the fittings are marked KTC and XPA copper type strapping. Of course your answers don't differentiate between USA stamped fittings or Taiwan stamped fittings.

There is a national class action suit that is ongoing through 2020 that I registered for online, and I'm waiting for paperwork.

I would hate to ignore a ticking time bomb only to come home with a house that is fully flooded after work, as one of my old coworkers experienced.

I am visiting with a lawyer tomorrow to see what can be done to sue the inspection company for ignoring the piping. Who else do we have to protect us as home buyers other than the inspectors? If they do a half arsed job, what good are they?

The fact that the fittings and piping were recalled in 2005 yet builders and plumbers continued to install it in 2007 is disgusting.

You know the way lawyers work. They will sue everybody involved. The builders, the plumbers, the inspectors, the realtors, etc, etc. It's a shotgun approach.

 

[txjeff]

By the way, the only place it is visible in my TX house, with a cement slab, is a couple of inches at the fittings of the garage water heater. The rest is all neatly hidden throughout the walls and behind the cabinet backing in kitchens and bathrooms. The only way to see more would be to cut out would and/or sheetrock. If necessary to prove the case, I will cut out some of it.

 

[Matt30]

Keep us updated on your legal battle. It's a side I don't really get to see the process of. There's a class action lawsuit on this open until 2020 I believe

 

[txjeff]

Keep us updated on your legal battle. It's a side I don't really get to see the process of. There's a class action lawsuit on this open until 2020 I believe

Thanks Matt. Yes I already began the registration process. I saw a lawyer yesterday who mostly wasted my time. He recommended I continue with the kitecsettlement.com process and maybe contact the lawyers involved with that.
The lawyer said he wouldn't take the case on contingency, in spite of multiple houses that could be involved in my neighborhood.

 

[txjeff]

As an update, I called 3 different lawyers in my home town of Granbury TX. None of them wanted anything to do with a Kitec case. One claimed it was a conflict of interest with the builder. Too small of a town not to run into that kind of crud.

I found one lawyer I could talk with an hour away. Turned out it was a waste of my time. He had all kinds of excuses. Ultimately, he wouldn't take the case on contingency regardless. He thought it was a waste of time to sue the home inspection place. And, due to the Reimbursement fund that ITEC setup already, he figured that is a legal out and from a legal end, they would run into battling a Federal level national reimbursement program from a State level. So I left frustrated that I couldn't hear all this on the phone instead of wasting my time.

So, I formally registered with the KITEC Reimbursement process. My neighbor, who is in the same boat, meanwhile, has their house up for sale this week. I doubt they will disclose anything.

 

[Matt30]

Thanks for the update! The process doesnt seem so complicated here. It doesnt seem like much people are having troubles with claims

 

[txjeff]

Thanks for the update! The process doesnt seem so complicated here. It doesnt seem like much people are having troubles with claims

Probably because Canada cares about the people. In the USA, corporate rich folks get the sweet side of the stick.

Essentially, the ploy sellers of homes have is that they disclose, but it's buried on the form and stated in vague terms that only an expert would understand. By listing several things that are actually positive on the disclosure, like "roof replaced, house repainted, no termites, air conditioner maintained annually, IPEX piping." Sounds all good doesn't it?

 

[zed512]

Hi TXJeff, I too have discovered that I have IPEX pipes and XPA fittings. No issues to date and house is 10 years old. I discovered the plumbing system after recent bathroom remodel.
What is your state of play with the builder and your system?

 

[txjeff]

Hi TXJeff, I too have discovered that I have IPEX pipes and XPA fittings. No issues to date and house is 10 years old. I discovered the plumbing system after recent bathroom remodel.
What is your state of play with the builder and your system?

Lawyers worthless; construction warranty long past. Inspectors do the minimum they are require to do, so they don't catch this kind of problem. Original plumber is out of business. Welcome to America.

Ultimately, I signed up in advance at the Kitec Settlement website: http://www.kitecsettlement.com/

That's kind of like BS homeowners insurance. Unless you have a pipe burst, nobody does a thing. You have to be underwater to get anyone to do anything.

 

[CT-18]

Look at the Shell Dupont lawsuit from years ago with the crimp rings. It has been going on for years. People trying new products trying to save money but not thinking about the future. I have been saying for a while now with these Sharkbites, if something goes bad it will be a mess.

 

[txjeff]

Update: Now more than a year has past since I submitted my Kitec Reimbursement Claim for zero dollars in and effort to simply register before 2020 (the end year of the program, which is a joke) that I had Kitec piping installed. I received a letter reply, in spite of my cover letter that explained my intentions of the "claim" filing, that since I had zero dollars in my claim, they couldn't process it. I decided to call the place and, in a conversation, even though they say after 2020 that they will disburse the remaining money to homes that have Kitec piping installed, it's of no benefit if there isn't an actual failure or cost to the installation. Which means once the fund is over, if a pipe bursts "maybe" homeowners insurance will assist.

But, further reading in HO Insurance reflects that a failure due to corrosion or wear is not covered. Only if it's an incidental failure, like someone drove a car through your wall and broke a pipe. Or if it was a PVC installation in the foundation that leaked say. So again, Kitec fitting failures would be a doubtful pass.

Thankfully, and so far, we are at year 12 of our new home and we haven't suffered a failure as of yet. A couple of listening neighbor friends, who also have Kitec, are nervous as well, but not as much as I am.

It is still beyond reason to me that Home Inspection firms ignore the plumbing and don't protect a home buyer from the trap of buying a home with Kitec installed.

 

[txjeff]

I talked with insurance rep, and she said that even if it was copper piping, which, in Granbury, TX in slabs it is something that leaks and corrodes, there is no insurance reimbursement for that either. The stuff that gets damaged, like carpet, furniture, wood of walls, etc, that is covered. So it is the collateral damage that is the protection. And, there is no other policy one can buy that would protect against questionable plumbing and cost of pipe replacement. So if a pipe goes, cha ching.

 

[rwiens]

In my province, you would be hard pressed to find anyone who has done more KiTec replacements than me. I have saw failures in the piping itself, but leaks tend to form more so around the joints, it doesn't matter if it's the crimped joint, or compression. Once the end of the pipe starts to deform, it's game over.

You should definitely not be selling your home because you have KiTec pipe, give that plumber a smack. Failures only tend to occur on high heat applications, say hydronic baseboard heating (180F). Failures on domestic water is rare, but it happens.

Your biggest issue with the KiTec is going to be if you decide to sell your house now. Where I live, it's basically law that you cannot sell the house to another person until the pipe is changed out so some sort of agreement is worked out between the seller and buyer. Usually the seller ends up eating the cost.

I have done replacements where the pipe looks all wrinkled and deformed, others the pipe looks as new as the day it was installed. You could go your entire lifetime and not have a single problem. But if down the road you spring a leak, or want to just be pro active and avoid it all together then you should look at a replacement

Hi, I bought a house with Kitec in floor heating. I've disconnected it and don't plan to use it. I've capped the pipes for now but left existing water in them. Should I drain the pipes? Thanks!