How can I install a P trap in this shower drain? Contractor installed a shower drain installed with no P trap

[trhoppe]

We had a contractor screw up our shower drain. I didn't inspect his work before he closed up shop on the shower itself, and I trusted him as he's done other good work before. Now we have a fully tiled shower and this problem of no P trap.

Need to figure out how to fix this, considering I basically don't really have good access. I was able to cut a 12x16 or so hole in the floor NEXT to the shower, and can kind of reach in there, but barely. I definitely can't reach all the way to the drain in order to remove that rubber 90 degree fitting and install a P trap there.

Is there a good way I can somehow install a functioning P trap in this setup?

This is the picture of the actual shower drain coming down from above. That rubber 90 degree fitting that disappears into the subfloor is installed on the linear drain itself.



This is a picture slightly further downstream. Here you can see the drain the background. In the foreground is the vent and I'm taking this picture from right next to the toilet, where I was able to cut a hole in the floor.

 

[dmmsr]

Wow! I'm sorry for your issue but it looks like he did more than missing the p trap. Did he notch all tkose beams like that or was that done previous? You are only allowed to drill holes. And that one is a triple beam. Almost like it ⁷is a support beam. IMHO I would be more concerned of having a general contractor take a look at the joists and beams first.

 

[trhoppe]

Yup, they were notched like that since the house was built. There was a shower drain there before.

 

[CT18]

I don't know what you can do without tearing all that out. You don't even have room enough to pipe a trap in line just to get some protection on that drain. I know most homeowners don't want to hear this but pulling permits would cover you from hacks like this. It is more than just a money grab. I hope you can find a solution because sewer gases are not healthy

 

[MicEd69]

Yup, they were notched like that since the house was built. There was a shower drain there before.

WOW. I would be VERY concerned about those notched members. That beam fashioned by three 2x10s I'm guessing, has been weakened TREMENDOUSLY. If this was done during the initial construction, it either was not inspected, or hidden from the inspector. How old is this house?

I'm a registered Professional Engineer and I would highly recommend you bite the bullet and get an engineer or a good general contractor in to investigate that situation, just as dmmsr recommended.

Re: the plumbing, that can be fixed in some manner after you restore the structural integrity of the house. I know these "were notched like that since the house was built", but that doesn't mean they are safe notched to th4e extent they are.

Good luck.

 

[trhoppe]

Thanks guys.

I've got 2 people coming to take a look at this. One this afternoon (plumbing) and one tomorrow morning (contactor). Definitely prepared to rip up a portion of the kitchen ceiling, get this fixed, and then clean up the ceiling

We'll see what happens!

 

[dmmsr]

Is this a condo? Can you get access through the ceiling below? If there is a different unit below I would see if they would allow you to open from there unit and reassure them you will have it patched properly and painted when done.

If you can take the 90 off the drain being that it is a rubber and put a straight piece down with a fernco then install a p trap. Might be tight to get up there and loosen the band but this would be the best way. If you cannot take the rubber 90 off then next best is putting a running trap. Not that is proper but your only other way of having a trap on your shower. Basically after the 90 put a st 90 facing down Goin in a trap return bend and another 90 on top to go back into the branch line.

This is the problem that exists when hiring a contractor to do a licensed plumbers job. They say they are experienced but have no idea how to plumb at all. This is plumbing 101.

 

[trhoppe]

This is the 2nd story of my duplex. I do have access to underneath.

I think the "running trap" is what I'd rather do if that's an option. I'll see if the plumber that comes here thinks that's an option, thanks!

And I double checked on the notched beams. I have no idea why they are even there, as three feet further down, they are just cut off in order to place the toilet itself. It's as if they are decorations

Just a note: this is a "modular house". Not like a trailer, but rather a number of boxes that are made in a factory and then put together and finished on site. So this isn't a standard load bearing setup, line in a stick built home.

 

[dmmsr]

I am not advocating for a running trap. But any trap made with a return bend is better then no trap at all. I would highly recommend trying to remove that 90 if at all possible and do it the right way.

As far as the beams, no beams are meant for decoration. (I know what you meant). The issue is what was in place previously? Was it a mud base or shower pan? Was it a bathtub? If it was not a mud base previous how big is it? Because now it's more weight. Or even if it was a mud base and made it bigger that is also an issue with more weight. Beams are never to be notched nor joists. Engineers are really the best resource to find out how bad it may be, if it is at all.

 

[MicEd69]

three feet further down, they are just cut off in order to place the toilet itself

Do you mean they are actually cut off totally? If so, the only thing keeping them in place is the nails/screws in the sub floor. I'd love to see a picture of that.

I understand the modular cpnstruction and that could be why they are tripled up, but I would exoect that the toilet would be boxed out rather than the 2x10s simply cut off and out of the way.

 

[trhoppe]

Toilet is definitely not boxed up. Now I kind of feel like it should be, so while I'm in there, I'm going to go ahead and do that.

 

[dmmsr]

Do you mean they are actually cut off totally? If so, the only thing keeping them in place is the nails/screws in the sub floor. I'd love to see a picture of that.

I understand the modular cpnstruction and that could be why they are tripled up, but I would exoect that the toilet would be boxed out rather than the 2x10s simply cut off and out of the way.

This is my curiosity. I am not as knowledgeable with construction to know what would be acceptable support at all. When you say box out I am assuming you mean to use two joists and run 2x10s from one to the other and hang the cut joist to the box? If that's what you are saying would you have to double up the existing joists to carry the load of the box out?

 

[trhoppe]

I don't get it either. But, this is definitely how this was built out to begin with.

I'm assuming the building inspector doesn't look inside the floors of these modular units on site, as they look at them at the factory. They come prefinished with a floor, and the whole "box" is hooked up to external plumbing.

Here is the worst drawing ever of how this is currently setup. One floor joist on each "side". Then that weird triple, with it having those notches, but then it's totally cut. Once I got my head in there more, I noticed they are boxed/tied back to the other floor joist, but no other reinforcement that I can see.



Thanks for all the help/opinions so far. I think the most important ones were "call someone in". I'm good with DIY levels of handy work, woodworking, and straightforward plumbing (changing out a sink/vanity) and electrical (change out some outlets). Once it gets past those levels, calling in the pros seems right. We'll know tomorrow

 

[MicEd69]

This is my curiosity. I am not as knowledgeable with construction to know what would be acceptable support at all. When you say box out I am assuming you mean to use two joists and run 2x10s from one to the other and hang the cut joist to the box? If that's what you are saying would you have to double up the existing joists to carry the load of the box out?

Yes, this is a picture of a box out for a toilet.



trhoppe siad, "Just a note: this is a "modular house". Not like a trailer, but rather a number of boxes that are made in a factory and then put together and finished on site."

As he indicated, the structure was built in modular sections, so perhaps some of the triple beams were just to assemble the various modules into the finished house. But the statement that they were cut off doesn't compute, if you know what I mean.

 

[trhoppe]

Oh, I know what you mean. I'm looking at it with a "wtf" as well, but just putting it down onto "that's modular I guess" since I know the contractors didn't do that, but the modular folks did.

 

[MicEd69]

they are boxed/tied back to the other floor joist

Well, that connection to that one joist does nothing to support the tripled 2x10s. The "box" needs to go to the joists on either side of the toilet. They may need to be doubled like in the diagram above, but that depends on the load calculations.


How far apart are the complete joists?

 

[dmmsr]

But this is the confusing part to me.

First, anytime I see a double or triple beam it usually suggests to me it is weight bearing. At least I assume it is.

Second how did this stay floating magically in the air. If it was a single joist that is one thing but triple? All that weight plus toilet with a human sitting on it doesn't cause the floor to sag and eventually the beam falll?


So I figured that is how the box is made but to properly carry the weight of the triple beam would that require adding more joists to the existing full pieces to carry the load and even the two for the box? And should he get a load calculation for the beam to make sure those joists can carry the weight?


It's funny how I get too worried over little details of my work then I see contractors do this. This is why paying an experienced licensed plumber is worth the money.

 

[trhoppe]

I’m going to trust the pros that did this, and because it’s a modular house, I’m going to assume there’s some stuff to go along with that. It hasn’t sagged in 10 years, and now there’s less load than there used to be. It was a big heavy tub and replaced by some kerdi flooring with some mosaic tile. It’s definitely lighter than before. I’m going to go ahead and add in 2 more 2x10 cross pieces to complete the box, just because it’s open and I have the access. The other joists are 32” apart, as everything is 16” on center otherwise.

As far as the plumber, I’m following that advice. Dude is coming at 9am to un-**** the plumbing, which will hopefully involve doing it via the hole in the floor, but if need be, we can go through the kitchen ceiling.

Thanks for all the responses and advice. Duly noted for next time. Hire the contractor for demo, drywall work and non load bearing framing. But sub out for things like plumbing. I already sub out for heavy electrical work, so I should have known better with the plumbing.

 

[trhoppe]

So, follow up. Again, thanks for the responses and help.

Plumber came out this morning. Can't get to the drain from the hole in the floor. The only way forward is to remove a 2x4 portion of the kitchen ceiling. I'm going to go ahead and do that and he's going to replace that shitty 90 off the drain with a real fitting, into a P trap, into the rest of the system. $300. Not bad IMO.

Also, at the same time, I'm going to add real blocking to the toilet area, so that it's boxed out. I'm not going to double up on the other beams, since all that was "from the factory", but the extra blocking to make a real box won't hurt anything.

 

[CT18]

If he is going to charge 300 to fix that mess keep his info. That is as long as it gets done right. Tell him he has all the pressure from the plumbing forums on him. Good luck