angrycannibal
Member
Curious if anyone knew the difference between these two diverter cartridges, or what the 'RP' might mean. Can't say I'm huge fan of the lack of info Symmons provides for their products.
Difference between Symmons RTS124 and Symmons RTS124RP?
- Thread starter angrycannibal
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Can you post a picture symmons industries is in Braintree mass this brand is widely used in my area that's all they use in hospitals,colleges and homes I've had great luck with their support staff, check out ta-25a/ta25b
I have never seen the one until now that you talk about, if you have a tub/shower you want ta-25a that diverts water from shower head to tub spout, if you have shower only ta-25b (black) controls volume ill have to research those other 2
But I think the ones I listed will also work,just pay attention to which ta model you buy
I have never seen the one until now that you talk about, if you have a tub/shower you want ta-25a that diverts water from shower head to tub spout, if you have shower only ta-25b (black) controls volume ill have to research those other 2
But I think the ones I listed will also work,just pay attention to which ta model you buy
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angrycannibal
Member
The RTS124 is for their newer valves. Attached is the RTS124RP, the RTS124 is the same thing except with white plastic and blue o rings. I'm pretty sure they are functionally the same, they serve as a diverter, but I was just curious if there were any differences between the two models.
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Can you show me a picture of the valve
I have a call into my supply house salesman or I will call symmons myself I'm curious, I've worked on these for 30+ years and they haven't changed so now I'm curious
I have a call into my supply house salesman or I will call symmons myself I'm curious, I've worked on these for 30+ years and they haven't changed so now I'm curious
angrycannibal
Member
I did get a response from Symmons, supposedly RP just means 'retail packaging' according to one of their reps. Seems incredibly odd that they would use different colored plastic an o rings if they were otherwise identical as it would add additional cost to manufacture. Also I don't see these listed at any normal retail stores, only at plumbing suppliers and they often carry both models or just the non RP version, it's weird that they would have a retail version but no large retailers that sell them. I'm tempted to buy one of the RP diverters, it seems that may be the only way to know for sure.
It goes into the S262 valves as shown below.
It goes into the S262 valves as shown below.
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That valve yo show I have installed and rebuilt hundreds of times over the years
Check out thread #2 those are the diverters that come in that style valve you show, who knows they maybe changing the design I'm gonna call symmons and see if the 2 diverters #s are compatible, any way the reasoning for the difference in color is the white one diverts water from tub spout to shower head the other black one is for shower only and increases or decreased water volume, I'm guessing that's the case
In that model you show, in any case I will call them in the am
Check out thread #2 those are the diverters that come in that style valve you show, who knows they maybe changing the design I'm gonna call symmons and see if the 2 diverters #s are compatible, any way the reasoning for the difference in color is the white one diverts water from tub spout to shower head the other black one is for shower only and increases or decreased water volume, I'm guessing that's the case
In that model you show, in any case I will call them in the am
angrycannibal
Member
I think the change is very recent, and the valve bodies are very similar looking visually old vs new and there is a newer black volume control cartridge; RTS126. There's also a California compliant bright green non shared diverter too. I don't think you can fit the older TA diverters into the newer valve bodies, or if you could they would work correctly, but now I'm curious if you could as the new ones look like they are more restrictive than the old ones.
Might as well experiment, I just ordered a TA-25A, might as well see if it fits and functions in the newer valve bodies, if not i'll just send it back to Scamazon.
Might as well experiment, I just ordered a TA-25A, might as well see if it fits and functions in the newer valve bodies, if not i'll just send it back to Scamazon.
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I didn't get a chance to call symmons, we had flooding rain and I was dealing with that all day, I will call tomorrow
angrycannibal
Member
I was able to confirm that the TA diverter spindles do not fit in the newer valve bodies, they are longer and skinnier than the RTS diverter cartridges. Though it does look like I could potentially pull apart the newer carts and port it out a bit so the flow is less restricted. Now that I can compare them in person I can see that the new diverters are definately more restrictive than the old ones.
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angrycannibal
Member
I did get it apart, and there is definately a bit of room for improvement, particularly in the shared position as it nearly halves the overall flow. The plate that would need to be ported to improve it, is ceramic, so I'll need to wait for a set of diamond needle files. Probably not a huge issue for most people, flow restrictors in shower heads would probably have more resistance than even the diminished flow you get in the shared position, but I throw those restrictors in the garbage where they belong.
The new diverter is an overall improvement, a ceramic on ceramic sealing surface would probably last a lot longer than plastic on brass. Just could use some .5mm fillets on the ceramic piece that sits between the outlet and the ceramic piece that turns to divert the water, there would be plenty of surface area left to make a seal with the fillets.
Worst case, I fix it until it breaks and I'm out 15 bucks.
The new diverter is an overall improvement, a ceramic on ceramic sealing surface would probably last a lot longer than plastic on brass. Just could use some .5mm fillets on the ceramic piece that sits between the outlet and the ceramic piece that turns to divert the water, there would be plenty of surface area left to make a seal with the fillets.
Worst case, I fix it until it breaks and I'm out 15 bucks.
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I just called symmons their valve style changed in 2020
Rts 124 is tub shower
Rts 124 rp is shower only
There is another one made on California
Called a non positive shut off so when you move it it will shut off the water for soaping up it's not used like your stem as a shut off.after a little while it will cause hot/cold water crossover
Rts 124 is tub shower
Rts 124 rp is shower only
There is another one made on California
Called a non positive shut off so when you move it it will shut off the water for soaping up it's not used like your stem as a shut off.after a little while it will cause hot/cold water crossover
angrycannibal
Member
I don't think that's entirely correct, based on the info that is available these are what the different carts are for:
RTS 126 is a volume control intended for shower only.
RTS 124 is a shared diverter for shower and tub or shower and shower.
RTS 145 is a non shared diverter, only allowing water to flow on one side or the other and not both at the same time. This was made to comply with California law.
They also make a plug that allows you to convert a Versaflex valve to a more conventional style valve with no built in control. Not sure what the part number is
It does appear that the RP designation is for 'retail package', the TA spindle I picked up also has that designation and came in retail packaging. I'm guessing that some marketing wanker decided that changing the color of the plastic would make it look more presentable, and that justified the added cost of making a seperate production run.
RTS 126 is a volume control intended for shower only.
RTS 124 is a shared diverter for shower and tub or shower and shower.
RTS 145 is a non shared diverter, only allowing water to flow on one side or the other and not both at the same time. This was made to comply with California law.
They also make a plug that allows you to convert a Versaflex valve to a more conventional style valve with no built in control. Not sure what the part number is
It does appear that the RP designation is for 'retail package', the TA spindle I picked up also has that designation and came in retail packaging. I'm guessing that some marketing wanker decided that changing the color of the plastic would make it look more presentable, and that justified the added cost of making a seperate production run.
When I called Symmons it sounded like the guy I talked to was eating lunch. But that was just my experience.
They are a good co. Doesn't make sense that they changed their diverter style the
Original diverters have worked fine for a long time
Original diverters have worked fine for a long time
$$$??
These valves are popular some parts of the country. In other parts they’re pink unicorns.
angrycannibal
Member
If I had to guess, it was done to so that they could make a diverter that would comply with the updated 2019 California plumbing code. The timing kind of makes sense, the it's outlined in code section 408.2.2, which no longer allows the use of shared diverters to serve multiple shower heads from a single valve. Symmons also made the valves around this same time and started selling them in 2020. I don't see an obvious way to reengineer the old spindle to work as a non shared diverter, and likely Symmons couldn't find a way either, so they updated the design, increased the bore diameter to allow for a cartridge that could comply with this change.
I could be completely wrong, but it looks like most obvious work around to this would be to simply install multiple valves for multiple shower heads, so it all kind of seems stupid to me.
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I totally agree
