Garbage disposal - switching from hardwired to plug style

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Thanks a lot. Installing a box and switch like that should be easy enough. It'll make swapping out the disposal easier in the future too. How about this one?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-Gang-...2-in-Threaded-Outlets-Bronze-5320-2/202056215

That is nearly identical to what I installed, and as I recall I had to drill a couple of holes in it, to mount it.

However it wasn't my first choice! My first choice was a plastic box with mounting ears; however at the time I did this (I think it was May) the stock of electrical parts was pretty well depleted everywhere and they didn't even have the box you note at Home Depot; luckily an electrical supply house had one. This would have been my first choice, or something like it:

gray-bell-boxes-brackets-psb37550gyb-64_145.jpg

Good luck with your project!

 

[BrianL]

That is nearly identical to what I installed, and as I recall I had to drill a couple of holes in it, to mount it.

However it wasn't my first choice! My first choice was a plastic box with mounting ears; however at the time I did this (I think it was May) the stock of electrical parts was pretty well depleted everywhere and they didn't even have the box you note at Home Depot; luckily an electrical supply house had one. This would have been my first choice, or something like it:

gray-bell-boxes-brackets-psb37550gyb-64_145.jpg

Good luck with your project!

I assume you wanted the ears to make it easier to screw it in?

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Precisely.

 

[Jeff Handy]

That dual outlet either/or air switch is popular around my area also.
Older homes usually here usually only have one circuit feeding both dishwasher and disposer.

With the air switch only energizing one socket at a time, it is impossible to run both appliances at once, which is good because sometimes that pops the breaker.
The only downside is that if dishwasher is running and then disposal is operated, the dishwasher will sometimes have to be restarted manually.

 

[frodo]

ok. now we gotta get nerdy

this is from the nec


Kitchens: All receptacles serving countertop areas and any receptacle within 6 feet of a sink must have GFCI protection. Also, the receptacle supplying a dishwasher should be GFCI-protected.

getting nerdy with the LANGUAGE, it says all plug ins serving the countertop area.
then it uses the word and. so the next sentence is a separate thought
all plug ins within 6' of da sink.

so the authors first sentence covered all counter tops and the 2nd sentence covered above and below the countertop

if not, then what is the use of the sentence? it would make no sense

but, i could be wrong as hell

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Hmmm..

First sentence says MUST.
Second sentence says SHOULD.

As I pointed out, in MA dishwashers MUST have GFCI, regardless of whether hard wired or not. In NC, this has not been adopted. Why? Who knows. People sit in state capitols and decide these things, and then even local jurisdictions make further decisions. When I put my last dishwasher in, in Michigan, last year, I added GFCI just because.

I follow common sense. Common sense tells me an outlet under a sink needs GFCI. I don't give a flying *&^% what the NEC or local code may say or allow otherwise. I know what a GFCI does, and I know that's the kind of protection I want right there. I've also replaced enough crappy disposals in my day to know I want one that plugs in, not one that's hard wired. What anyone else does? Well, it's up to you.

On another unrelated issue to dishwashers, my neighbor's brand new GE dishwasher, an $800 unit with a door latch worth about $0.05, had to have the entire unit replaced for that door latch. So the GE warranty team comes, and because the existing one was plumbed in with compression fittings instead of push fittings they would touch it. GE doesn't recommend or use compression fittings, only push. So since this is a new home, the builder had to get a plumber in to disconnect the compression fitting for the water supply, then the GE team could come and remove the old dishwasher, and the plumber came back later that afternoon to reinstall the replacement dishwasher. Our neighbors have been in the house since late October and between product shortages and labor shortages it's only since Monday that they have been able to use a dishwasher...

 

[House Doc]

Another reason for a plugged disposer to be on a gfci, even a single socket dedicated type, is that at some point something else might temporarily get plugged into there.
A work light, power tool, space heater, phone charger, all things that could fall into the sink or come in contact with water and people.

I get it... I always crawl under the kitchen sink to plug in my phone charger, or power tools. Since the 4 or 5 above the counter probably would be a poor choice.
Come on Jeff think about your answers.

 

[House Doc]

Things may have changed, but wasn't there a clause in the codes about the outlet being accessible and/or generally useable, or a dedicated outlet? Although the codes call for outlets in the garage be GFI protected, I have never seen a garage door opener plugged into a GFI in the ceiling.

 

[Jeff Handy]

I get it... I always crawl under the kitchen sink to plug in my phone charger, or power tools. Since the 4 or 5 above the counter probably would be a poor choice.
Come on Jeff think about your answers.

What if you are working under the sink, or thawing frozen pipes, whatever, and decide to use that disposer outlet for plugging in something else?
No need to pick on me.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Things may have changed, but wasn't there a clause in the codes about the outlet being accessible and/or generally useable, or a dedicated outlet? Although the codes call for outlets in the garage be GFI protected, I have never seen a garage door opener plugged into a GFI in the ceiling.

Former electrical code allowed for an exception; the GFCI needed to be readily accessible, and 10' the floor in a ceiling was not deemed readily accessible. However, since 2008, the NEC has removed that exception. Ceiling outlets for garage door openers must be GFCI. Since 2017, now those same outlets must also be AFCI protected. Doesn't matter where in the garage that outlet is, or high high it is. It is possible that local jurisdictions have not adopted this or choose to ignore it, doesn't change the code as written however. Just changes how it may be done in your area on new/remodeling work.

Well, all plumbers and those that act like them: let's all understand a little electrical work, safety and code since you never know when you'll interact with Sparky...

A circuit breaker in a panel is designed to protect the circuit in case of an overload.
A GFCI is designed to protect a person in case of a ground fault, the most common form of electrical shock.
An AFCI is designed to protect against fires caused by electrical arcing, one of the most common cause of electrical fires.

Not all arcing is dangerous (ever see an arc putting a plug in a wall?) and not all dangerous arcing will overload a circuit. That's why they invented AFCI. Most shock hazards are due to ground faults, that's why they invented GFCI. Overloading a circuit due to overcurrent conditions can damage wiring and electrical parts and cause fires, that's why they came up with fuses and circuit breakers. Three different scenarios, three different solutions.

Those and common sense are what protect us in Sparky's land.

 

[BrianL]

That is nearly identical to what I installed, and as I recall I had to drill a couple of holes in it, to mount it.

However it wasn't my first choice! My first choice was a plastic box with mounting ears; however at the time I did this (I think it was May) the stock of electrical parts was pretty well depleted everywhere and they didn't even have the box you note at Home Depot; luckily an electrical supply house had one. This would have been my first choice, or something like it:

gray-bell-boxes-brackets-psb37550gyb-64_145.jpg

Good luck with your project!

I later realized the box I posted before is an outdoor, weatherproof, metal box, and very heavy duty (and very heavy). The one you posted is plastic, but also heavy duty, outdoor/weatherproof. Thus, they cost around $5-$7. Is there a plastic flush-mount box sold somewhere that isn't made for outdoor use, thus cheap? I didn't see one.

HD does have these metal ones (with a hole in the back for mounting) for about $1, but it seems plastic should be used.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/4-in-x-2-in-Drawn-Handy-Electrical-Box-Raised-Ground-8660/100560024

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

I think I paid about $5 for mine. The price of the box to me, whether $0.50 or $5.00 was not relevant. Yes they are heavy duty plastic. I got what I could find when inventory was mostly gone everywhere. Nothing wrong with a metal box, but it will eventually rust and look nasty.

 

[gagecalman]

Save yourself the money and just hardwire it.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Spin on this.

Should a washing machine require a GFCI and do you have one installed ?

Most disposals here are hardwired. Most dishwashers here are hardwired.
If turning off a light switch with wet hands can kill you, I’m the luckiest SOB walking.

 

[FishScreener]

Disposals, and grinders are mechanical devices. IIRC: The mechanical code requires a means of positive disconnection within five feet of the device, visible from the device. The receptacle costs less than a disconnect box which you would need for the hardwired unit.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Disposals, and grinders are mechanical devices. IIRC: The mechanical code requires a means of positive disconnection within five feet of the device, visible from the device. The receptacle costs less than a disconnect box which you would need for the hardwired unit.

It’s much safer if you can unplug it. I see their logic.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Why isn’t a water heater ona ground fault ?
It has water in it and then your touching the faucet while you’re wet and nekidd.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Should a washing machine require a GFCI and do you have one installed ?

Why, yes...

All 125V, single phase, 15amp and 20amp receptacles installed in the locations specified in NEC 210.8(A)(1) through (10), (where “Laundry Areas” is listed as (10)) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. With this said, the NEC doesn’t specifically state that a “washing machine” needs to to be on a GFCI, BUT IT DOES SAY THAT THE LAUNDRY AREA MUST HAVE THEM INSTALLED. So in my case, yes, the washing machine is on a GFCI receptacle because it is in a laundry area.

Don't assume "most disposals are hardwired". In every home I've lived in except my current home, which was a new build in 2019, there was an outlet under the sink (a GFCI outlet) and the disposal plugged into that. This home has a "builder's special" and in order to save money they bought a cheap disposal. They hardwired it to save on an outlet, a GFCI, a box, etc. They even saved on wiring by running 14-3 and sharing the neutral, with one leg feeding the dishwasher and the other the disposal. The AFCI breaker in the box is joined.

Many disposals such as ISEs do not come with a power cord as they presume a hardwire installation. If not, you buy your own cord. Others, such as Waste King (or the American Standards I've purchased in the past) come with the cords.

In some jurisdictions (Massachusetts is one) not only do the disposals need to be on a GFCI but dishwashers as well. Perhaps it's overkill, but some obviously think not. Chicago requires full metal conduit for all residential electrical; now that's overkill. By spending a bit of time adding a box, a GFCI and a plug to my disposal, I've made the replacement infinitely easier. By adding the air switch I've made the operation infinitely more convenient.

Suits me; you don't have to like or agree with my choices.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Why, yes...

All 125V, single phase, 15amp and 20amp receptacles installed in the locations specified in NEC 210.8(A)(1) through (10), (where “Laundry Areas” is listed as (10)) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. With this said, the NEC doesn’t specifically state that a “washing machine” needs to to be on a GFCI, BUT IT DOES SAY THAT THE LAUNDRY AREA MUST HAVE THEM INSTALLED. So in my case, yes, the washing machine is on a GFCI receptacle because it is in a laundry area.

Don't assume "most disposals are hardwired". In every home I've lived in except my current home, which was a new build in 2019, there was an outlet under the sink (a GFCI outlet) and the disposal plugged into that. This home has a "builder's special" and in order to save money they bought a cheap disposal. They hardwired it to save on an outlet, a GFCI, a box, etc. They even saved on wiring by running 14-3 and sharing the neutral, with one leg feeding the dishwasher and the other the disposal. The AFCI breaker in the box is joined.

Many disposals such as ISEs do not come with a power cord as they presume a hardwire installation. If not, you buy your own cord. Others, such as Waste King (or the American Standards I've purchased in the past) come with the cords.

In some jurisdictions (Massachusetts is one) not only do the disposals need to be on a GFCI but dishwashers as well. Perhaps it's overkill, but some obviously think not. Chicago requires full metal conduit for all residential electrical; now that's overkill. By spending a bit of time adding a box, a GFCI and a plug to my disposal, I've made the replacement infinitely easier. By adding the air switch I've made the operation infinitely more convenient.

Suits me; you don't have to like or agree with my choices.

Mitchell,
I can assume that most disposals in my area are hardwired because that’s how it was done for 60 years and plumbers are not required to alter it when installing a new disposal here.

So if it was done fit 60 yrs I think it’s safe to assume that most disposals are hardwired in my area.

Do you think that’s a fair statement from someone who installs them for a living in his area for about 30 years ?

I haven’t questioned any choices you’ve made, I don’t believe. I just offer up my experiences after many years of field service.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

You are speaking of ONE area. I've lived in PA, MI, CT, NY, MA, CA and now NC...They have been plug-in style except for here. In the homes I have lived in.
No you shouldn't alter, and you could not: you are not licensed to add outlets and wiring and neither is any other plumber... But as a homeowner, I can. I can also very easily replace one when it's a plug style, a whole lot easier than hard wired.

I suspect that's why they were done that way in my prior homes.