replacement relay and capacitor needed for pump

[Aug]

This is my pump controller I do not know what kind of pump it has. It is a shallow well. :

While I can find capacitors in this range, I am having a harder time finding one with a resistor across each pole like this one does (however, it's not shown in the picture. I forgot to take one before I put it back together).

The gallery below shows the relay inscribed: RVA2AL3L L524 35A 400VAC
https://postimg.cc/gallery/G497k8

Any help or ideas to look would be wonderful!
Thank

 

[Twowaxhack]

I’d try this one.

https://www.amazon.com/Capacitor-10...cphy=9012983&hvtargid=pla-1917164797815&psc=1

 

[Bird Doo Head]

Aug, the resistor is used to bleed the capacitor for your safety when touching the terminals.
Before you condemn the capacitor, be sure that you are testing the capacitance with the resistor removed.


You can solder the old resistor onto the new capacitor. If the lead wires are long enough, you can crimp on some flag terminals such as Stak-On brand instead of soldering.

Or, you can skip the resistor. If you ever have to handle the capacitor: After the power is off & safety glasses are on, cross the terminals with a similar value resistor (or the old one) & hold it for about a minute. Don't do the screwdriver-across-the-terminals trick. The capacitor can explode.
Plan B: Turn off power and wait a day or two for the capacitor to self-discharge.



The starting relay is a "potential relay" type. It is different from a typical N.C. or N.O. relay. It de-energizes the start windings in the pump at a precise amperage (or sometimes voltage) level passing through terminal #2.

Grundfoss does not specify such details, so without knowing the "kick out" voltage or amperage of the relay, you are safest to replace it with a Grundfoss of the same model number. These are available on-line. Search the controller's model number.

You can also try a motor repair shop. Sometimes they can find out the realy's kick out specifications that us normal folks don't have access to. Then they can sell you a generic potential relay for about $5.00.

I hope this is helpful,
Paul

 

[Valveman]

Like Paul said. But a Franklin, Pentair, or Goulds control box should interchange with that one if needed.

 

[Aug]

Thanks, Paul for the info. I suspected that it was a bleed off resistor on the cap for my protection the Ducatti pdf I found for the model number of the capacitor said that it was an option tohave a 1 watt 39K resistor installed. I checked the color band and surely enough it was a 39k 1 watt 5%. ,For the relay, I signed up for a Grundfos account to see if I could find the number on their website, but nothing came up for the potential relay. Doing a search online brought up this: https://www.amazon.com/Control-rva2...rds=well+pump+control+box+relay+switch&sr=8-3

However, the numbers aren't completely the same. Mine says: RVA 2AL3L L524 35A 400 VAC. Do you have any favorite motor repair shops that you could recommend might be helpful if this one doesn't work?
Thank you again, Paul. This was definitely helpful information that you so kindly provided.

Aug, the resistor is used to bleed the capacitor for your safety when touching the terminals.
Before you condemn the capacitor, be sure that you are testing the capacitance with the resistor removed.


You can solder the old resistor onto the new capacitor. If the lead wires are long enough, you can crimp on some flag terminals such as Stak-On brand instead of soldering.

Or, you can skip the resistor. If you ever have to handle the capacitor: After the power is off & safety glasses are on, cross the terminals with a similar value resistor (or the old one) & hold it for about a minute. Don't do the screwdriver-across-the-terminals trick. The capacitor can explode.
Plan B: Turn off power and wait a day or two for the capacitor to self-discharge.



The starting relay is a "potential relay" type. It is different from a typical N.C. or N.O. relay. It de-energizes the start windings in the pump at a precise amperage (or sometimes voltage) level passing through terminal #2.

Grundfoss does not specify such details, so without knowing the "kick out" voltage or amperage of the relay, you are safest to replace it with a Grundfoss of the same model number. These are available on-line. Search the controller's model number.

You can also try a motor repair shop. Sometimes they can find out the realy's kick out specifications that us normal folks don't have access to. Then they can sell you a generic potential relay for about $5.00.

I hope this is helpful,
Paul

 

[Bird Doo Head]

From Aug: However, the numbers aren't completely the same. Mine says: RVA 2AL3L L524 35A 400 VAC.
I don't know enough about your relay to find out if the one above will work. The danger of swapping a potential relay for a "maybe" is that the Start winding might be energized too long and burn the motor. Conversely, it may be de-energized too soon, damaging the Run windings.

Do you have any favorite motor repair shops that you could recommend might be helpful if this one doesn't work?
Actually, I tried calling the two in Detroit that know to ask if they could identify the proper relay. Neither had access to Grundfoss information.


If you are sure you need a new relay or controller, Valveman mentioned above some controller brands that will work for you. You may have to do tedious cross-reference checking to find a match.

I hope this is not improper to suggest, but Valveman is a pump controls technician. Perhaps you can buy the parts that you need from him. Try sending him a private message through this forum and ask. I apologize if my suggestion is oun-of-line.

 

[Valveman]

Glad to help if I can, but don't sell pumps and or parts for them, only pump control valves and kits. Those type control boxes are a dime a dozen. Pretty much any similar horsepower control box from any box store will work. Most of those in the box stores are made by the companies I mentioned above, just have different names for the box stores.

 

[Aug]

On page 1 at the bottom there is a code explanation which I used for the relay, RVA 2AL 3L L524 35A 400VAC
RVA= Basic Model
Coil Type: 2
Volts: 332 @ 104 deg F/ 40 C
Resistance, 5600 ohms @ 77 degrees F/ 25 deg. C
Operating Characteristics (pick up, drop off, hot pick up): AL
P.U. 224-252
D.O. 40-105
H.P.U. 240-260 @ 194 degrees F/ 90 deg C
Operating Position: 3 (The back of the relay rests on the metal lid)
Terminal Configuration: L (Tab Mount with 3 twin quick connect on 1,2,5)

Franklin control box, well pump, rva2alkl, 155031102,155031110 relay. 305213902​

Going from this code in the pdf below, it looks like the coil resistance, the pick up, drop off, and hot pick up would be in the correct range. Operating position would be 1/4 turn rotated which would be an easy mod. I wanted to make sure that the PU/DO Voltages would be the same, and they appear to me that they are. Didn't want to burn out the pump! And thank you guys for all of your knowledge and help!

 

[Valveman]

Didn't want to burn out the pump!

Getting the right size and kind of starting capacitor and start relay is important. But keeping the pump from burning up requires keeping the start cap and relay from burning up in the first place. Start caps and start relays only burn up when the pump is starting or cycling too much. Burning up a start cap or pressure switch is just a first sign of how much damage cycling is doing and next to go will be the pump, tank bladder, check valve, or something else.

 

[Aug]

The capacitor was shot. The relay still latched, but it was pretty near the end of its life. After the replacement parts were installed, the pump does not switch on immediately after opening opening a valve. The hum from the pump is gone too.

The cap had leaked out most of the oil.

Lots of carbon build-up on the contacts and dust cap

 

[Valveman]

Yeah that is what a start cap and relay look like from a pump that has been cycling WAY too much. Your pump has certainly been compromised as well. The delay or lack of starting/humming could be from two reasons. Check to see the pressure switch is clicking at the right pressure to start. The nipple to the pressure switch could be clogged. But if the pressure switch is clicking and immediately sending 230V to the pump yet the pump does not hum, then most likely the overload in the motor has tripped. A tripped overload will cool down and automatically reset in a minute or two. But eventually it gets to where it will not reset or the motor is completely fried and just won't come on.

 

[Bird Doo Head]

Aug, you mentioned that the pump does not automatically switch on after opening a valve. I'm pretty sure that is how it is supposed to be, otherwise your pump will short cycle. That's where the storage tank comes into play.


The tank holds water initially at your cut-out pressure. When a faucet is opened, the pressure in the tank starts dropping. When it hits the cut-in pressure, the pressure switch calls the motor starting relay. An adequately sized tank will allow several minutes of water use from a 2 gpm faucet before the pressure switch calls the pump.

The tank also keeps the water pressure relatively steady while the outlets are in use. Without it, the faucet flow may surge.

Also, is it possible the pump is running and you don't hear the hum? An clamp-on ammeter on a line will give the answer. (Inexpensive ones can be found for $20.00.)

Paul
PS: I'm glad to hear that your system is operating. You must be really thirsty by now!