Cycle stop valve opinion
- Thread starter mrelmo
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I don't want to steal Valveman's thunder but let me respond with so other independent input from this Registered Professional Engineer in Missouri.
Pumps and motors do not like to start and stop, they like to run. The majority of industrial installations actually have control systems that prevent repeated starts of motors in a short period of time. People also like a constant flow of water when showering. A CSV system provides that as well as stopping the cycling during a shower and other longer usages of the well pump. A CSV system also reduces electrical usage by running a pump at lower flows versus running a pump at full flow on and off. That may go against some people's intuition as the pump in a CSV system runs for a longer time. But those who understand pump curves know that a pump's power consumption is less at lower flow rates.
But Valveman has vast experience with addressing the cons put out by rather unknowledgeable and biased posters. Or maybe many of the con posters are actually very knowledgeable and are posting cons for another purpose. Just saying!
Pumps and motors do not like to start and stop, they like to run. The majority of industrial installations actually have control systems that prevent repeated starts of motors in a short period of time. People also like a constant flow of water when showering. A CSV system provides that as well as stopping the cycling during a shower and other longer usages of the well pump. A CSV system also reduces electrical usage by running a pump at lower flows versus running a pump at full flow on and off. That may go against some people's intuition as the pump in a CSV system runs for a longer time. But those who understand pump curves know that a pump's power consumption is less at lower flow rates.
But Valveman has vast experience with addressing the cons put out by rather unknowledgeable and biased posters. Or maybe many of the con posters are actually very knowledgeable and are posting cons for another purpose. Just saying!
I understand your though process. But I think your analogy isn't quite right. I would say it is more something like in the 1980s, do you want your Ford, or Chevy, with a regular paint job that you wax, or with a clear coat. Both will provide you with a shiny car, but one will last longer and has less maintenance.
As I said in my original response, I'm a Registered Professional Engineer. I grew up on a farm and worked in my dad's welding shop from before grade school. I graduated from University of Missouri at Rolla, and joined a major chemical company where I worked as an engineer and later as a project manager. My engineering experience includes being the lead engineer on major projects in Chemical, Plastics, and Refinery facilities. And I was project manager on numerous projects up to $650M.
I have never used a CSV system, so my comments are solely based on my engineering analysis of the design, and the testimonies from those who have a CSV.
There are several contributors on this website who have CSVs, so they can provide you with their firsthand experiences. But obviously, they will be rather biased as all the ones I've read are quite pleased with them.
I hope my comments help you with your personal analysis of the CSV.
Are you the guy with the same thread over on that other plumbing forum? If so, What's your angle, seems like you are trying to drum up more info than you are letting on?
I have one, works great no issues. I kept my existing 80 gallon pressure tank as it was new. Pressure switch is 60-80.
I have one, works great no issues. I kept my existing 80 gallon pressure tank as it was new. Pressure switch is 60-80.
Cool, just seemed odd that there were two similar threads on 2 different forums by users from similar areas. As I stated I like mine, haven't had any problems with it.
Lol! Thanks GReynolds and MicEd! I have been hearing this question now for over 30 years. That alone should tell you the Cycle Stop Valve is a good product. But I have always understood why it is hard to believe. Even for me, it still seems to good to be true. As my confidence has grown for the product over the decades, I have become even bolder. Claiming the CSV is the cure for pump cancer is way over the top I know, but it is true! Nearly every problem and every failure of a pump or well system is caused by the pump cycling on and off. Installing a Cycle Stop Valve stops the cycling, and the cancer goes away.
Having been "blacklisted" by the major pump manufacturers in 1994 made me think there may be something wrong with the CSV that I had not seen yet. But a few years later, several engineers for those pump manufactures had retired and were able to tell me the story. They said the CSV is a "disruptive" product. While that didn't sound good to me, they went on to explain that being a "disruptive product" meant the CSV makes pumps last longer, use smaller pressure tanks, and solves a lot of other system problems as well.
Being naïve, I had never heard of a "disruptive product" and didn't know what "planned obsolescence" was. But now that I knew, I was mad that ANY company would purposely make products to fail in a short period of time. I was even more angry to find out that nearly every product is made that way. We are all just "suckers" for paying over and over again for things that should last. You are being lied to about every product you use. So, I certainly understand the reluctance to believe a simple Cycle Stop Valve could be so advantageous.
There have been a lot of disruptive products in the past. The automobile was disruptive to the horse and buggy industry. I am sure the buggy companies tried to scare people out of buying one of those "dangerous velocipede's" called a car or automobile. They probably came up with a hundred ways a car could kill you or destroy the world. Lol! The point is, companies who are being disrupted will do or say anything to hold on to their market share. If I were a pump manufacturer I would be scared of the CSV as well. In my own case using Cycle Stop Valves has reduced the number of pumps I would have had to purchase in the last 30 years by 90%. Imagine if everyone only had to purchase 10% as many pumps as in the past. 90% of the pump manufacturers would be out of business.
Thank goodness for those pump manufacturers that the CSV is so simple and counter intuitive it is hard to believe. I have learned that is actually a good thing for me as well. If the CSV was easily understood, customers would demand that every pump would come with one. There would be a hundred different brands of Cycle Stop Valves, putting me and a lot of pump manufactures out of business. Lol!
I would love for the people who bought Cycle Stop Valves back in 1993 to come here and tell you their CSV and pump system are still working. But I truly believe people who have Cycle Stop Valves eventually forget they even have a pump system, and are certainly not on a forum asking for help. Water has just been coming out of their faucets with force for so many years they forget where it comes from. One of my biggest problems is that many of my customers are no longer with us. After more than 30 years, many of my customers and friends have passed away, yet strong constant pressure is still coming out of the faucets at their house. Whoever moves into that house may never know why there is such strong constant pressure coming out of the faucets, or that they even have a pump system. Again, you can see why pump companies would hate me and my customers never come back to a forum.
But it does sound too good to be true, and few things are. So, I certainly understand why it is hard to believe.
I do my best to get honest reviews. I pay a company to bug people for a review and picture a few weeks after purchasing a CSV. I want to give them long enough to see how the CSV works, but no so long as to forget they have a pump system. Lol! Trustspot post all reviews, good and bad. But you will not find a bad review from anyone who has actually seen a CSV working. Pictures with all reviews proves the posters have a Cycle Stop Valve and the posts are legitimate.
https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/reviews
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I've had one for 4 years and am very happy with it. I bought my CSV before I ever found this forum. I also have the Cycle Sensor which, per the CSV website "Cycle Sensor is a system monitor that detects Rapid Cycle and Dry Run and reacts to either of these conditions by shutting down the pump". One other feature of the Cycle Sensor is it is a contiuous illuminated digital monitor of the amperage draw of your pump motor. So, when the pump starts and runs, you can see in real time how many amps it is drawing. Depending on the load....in other words, the volume of water being demanded, the amps will go up or down. Over the years, I am able to watch that amperage draw and be alert for a gradual overall increase in the amperage draw that would alert me to the pump motor beginning to fail. I will add that the owner, Cary Austin (Valveman) was extremely helpful in diagnosing and solving my well pump problems. My previoius pump burned up in 4 years. I had a well-servicer replace that pump and they did so with a pump that was too large, cycled repeatedly and burned up 2 weeks after installation. It was at that point that I found Cycle Stop Valves and began a dialog with them about my problem. I got a homeowner's education on well pumps from them on subjects from pump head, cooling shrouds, proper depth for the pump based on my well's GPM production and static water level, back pressure and pipe pressure specs, etc......basic stuff for many, I'm sure but not for me at the time. And he recommended the pump to replace the one that was too large. The end result has been my well operating flawlesslly for 4 years now and my well pump showing no signs of wear.
sarg
Well-Known Member
I have one in my residence and one on a utility well at my workshop. It's been several years now & I have No regrets.
