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Old 05-12-2012, 10:15 PM   #1
txjeff
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Default Flapper leak - hard to fix

Hi all. Got a toilet tank with a leaking flapper/valve seat. Tried a new flapper, it leaked worse. Put back original. Only thing that helps is using a rough sponge to clean the valve seat rubber, but I have to do it at least every two days or it leaks again. Here's a link for the typical setup: http://www.toilet-repairs.com/photos-diagrams/toilet-float-ball-flapper-diagram.gif

Do I need to replace the entire tank workings? I have a second toilet where I put in a new flapper and cleaned it and it's been fine. But the first one is just not cooperating.



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Old 05-12-2012, 10:59 PM   #2
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If that's the setup you have it's ancient. I haven't worked on one like that is 30 years. There are so many things that can go wrong with it. (guide arm could be loose or worn, upper or lower lift wires could be bent and there are also three different sized flush balls) Do yourself a favor and replace the flush valve with one that has ears on it. Fluid master makes a kit with every thing you will need. This is the kit you will need. It also includes a new tank to bowl gasket w/the nuts bolts and washers needed.

http://www.fluidmaster.com/our-products/flush-valves-repair-kits/complete-2-flush-valve-kit.html

John



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Old 05-13-2012, 08:42 PM   #3
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Hi John. Thanks for replying. I may have mislead a bit using using that web search image link. The home is only 4.5 years old. I meant to simply show that it is the type of system with a float and arm to turn off the valve and a rubber type flapper that simply swings on the two hinge arms when flushed and then drops down to cover the seal with a float to hold it from dropping too fast allowing a sufficient flush time. Of course, like most modern toilets, to get a sufficient flush, you have to hold the handle for seconds to get enough power. I don't believe it had leaking issues for the first couple of years and then it starting getting worse. I thought that just cleaning the surfaces would be sufficient and/or replacing the flapper.

Interesting that I bought a flapper from Walmart (this model with ring removed http://www.walmart.com/ip/Plumb-Craft-Adjustable-Flapper/15389033) and this fixed our toilet #2. But they only had one in stock. So I went to Lowes and got a "similar" one, but black, and it was worse than the original on toilet 1.

I went back to Walmart yesterday and they are still out of stock of the other model. So I ordered one from Amazon. I figured if it worked on the other toilet, maybe it will work on the first since they are the same everything. I'll let you know how futile that plan is.

What I find interesting in all the ads for this model flapper, http://www.walmart.com/ip/Plumb-Craft-Adjustable-Flapper/15389033, is that it says it's "adjustable". That seems to be untrue. It is just a molded rubber flapper with no moving dials or parts and a chain to open it. That's it. Yet if you Google this model every single ad says it's adjustable. I wrote to one seller to see if I could figure out why this is being falsely advertised everywhere. Even on Ebay.

I did read that some experts find this type of flapper to be a frustrating type to get to seal well.

If this doesn't work out, I will buy a kit and replace the whole assy.

thanks.

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Old 05-13-2012, 08:50 PM   #4
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PS: I got a reply from the Wayfair flapper seller on Ebay and he too is scratching his head as he is simply a reseller. He is going to check with the mf'er tomorrow and get back with me.

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Old 05-13-2012, 09:06 PM   #5
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Here are some picks of tank in my house:





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Old 05-13-2012, 11:15 PM   #6
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The reason you have to hold the handle is because the chain from the handle to the flapper is to long. There should be very little slack in it when the flapper is down. This may also be your problem of it not sealing. If the chain is to long it can get caught between the flapper and it's seat.

John

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Old 05-14-2012, 12:09 AM   #7
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Actually, you can't tell from the picture, but I did remove most of the slack by using a clip affair to tie up some links. So I really did try to make the slack the most efficient length along with ensuring it wouldn't snag when the lever is released. And I tested it a bunch of times. It's not so much the slack in the chain as it is simply at what water level drop allows the flapper to drop and reseal after opening. If I simply hit the lever quickly, it will drop about 2/3 and then reseal. If I hold the lever, it will mostly empty the tank allowing the most wash. I just think these lesser capacity toilets become two flushers, which mostly defeats the purpose.

I know they make flusher kits that allow you to adjust the flush power with a setting. I have been disappointed at how often the toilets get clogged, even with holding the lever sometimes. You've seen commercial toilets that simply blast waste down. These retail units are not nearly as powerful.

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Old 05-14-2012, 12:17 AM   #8
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That appears to be an American Standard Cadet toilet. Am I correct?

I have seen that particular toilet give many problems. Sometimes right away as soon as it is installed, sometimes as much as 9 or 10 years later. In fact, I have one in my own home that has done OK for 5 or so years, but now is starting to refuse to flush consistently. It will be replaced in the next week or so, as I have had almost no luck getting them to flush properly once they start acting up.

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Old 05-14-2012, 12:53 AM   #9
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In my opinion your better off changing all tank guts to modern ones

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Old 05-14-2012, 02:25 AM   #10
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Wow. Good info. It is an American Standard. It says 6.0 LPF next to the name, if that helps. I will keep all suggestions deeply in mind. Part of my thinking though is affected by a potential job offer in another state in the near future. If that happens, I may just rent out the house for awhile, and even though the toilets are still my problem, at least they still mostly work. I'll leave the plunger behind.

I am going to consider changing out the guts if the flapper I just ordered also leaks. If I stayed here, I have to agree with phishfood, I think I would chuck the whole toilets and replace them with something better. btw, what is a good available toilet type?



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