Your favorite single handle shower valve to install

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andyh95

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Ive only done a handful but ive always used delta foundations but sometimes when i put it in unless i suck even when i mess with the temperature regulator i cant get it to a good heat. feels less than 120 and other fixtures have no problem getting hotter
 

JG plumbing

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Take the temp of the water. "feels less" isn't very definitive.

When I moved into the house I currently live in, we (my tenant and I) shared water and we had two water heaters that were piped very poorly. Showers ran cold after a short time even though there was clearly 80 gal of hot water in the basement.

I'm not saying this is your problem only that odd things can happen.

I seperated the water and turned the water heaters up and gave us recirculation systems. Now when I turn the shower on in the summer, I can barely get it cold enough. Lol
 

Geofd

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Sometimes it matters how you heat your water
I use symmons shower valves they are made local to me, the stem is diffrent for a tankless application, compared to a standard hot water heater,what your explaining is exactly how the symmons valve acts with the incorrect stem ,talk to delta see if they have stem for diffrent heating applications
 

Twowaxhack

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Delta has a plain cartridge without pressure balanced or thermostatic control. 13/14 series

They have some that are just pressure balanced. 13/14 series

Some are pressure balanced with independent volume control 1700

Some that are thermostatically controlled pressure balanced and have independent volume control. 17t
 

pakle

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I wonder how easy it was for my handyman to install the Moen single-handle for two showers that both use PosiTemp Valves. He didn't complain. I picked it purely for aesthetics and Moen customer service, never considered ease of install. I also had him install a Grohe roman tub filler for my soaking bathtub. It didn't seem to have a valve, just hot & cold lines mixing together. Not sure if that made the installation easier but again selected for beautiful aesthetics.
 

Duckbutter

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Sometimes it matters how you heat your water
I use symmons shower valves they are made local to me, the stem is diffrent for a tankless application, compared to a standard hot water heater,what your explaining is exactly how the symmons valve acts with the incorrect stem ,talk to delta see if they have stem for diffrent heating applications
Symmons, inventor of pressure balancing.

Over the years, in online forums, I've learned that they're not well known in some parts.
 

Twowaxhack

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Sometimes it matters how you heat your water
I use symmons shower valves they are made local to me, the stem is diffrent for a tankless application, compared to a standard hot water heater,what your explaining is exactly how the symmons valve acts with the incorrect stem ,talk to delta see if they have stem for diffrent heating applications
Are you talking about the stem they offer to simply cut your flow volume down ?

If not, what’s the part number ?
 

Geofd

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The stem for a tankless application is a ta-10
3 hole stem at least that's how it's referred to at the supply house counters,if you call symmons tech support there have stems for that shower valves for many applications
 

Twowaxhack

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The stem for a tankless application is a ta-10
3 hole stem at least that's how it's referred to at the supply house counters,if you call symmons tech support there have stems for that shower valves for many applications
From what I understand all that stem does is choke the volume down because people undersized their tankless water heaters.

That’s the short version what their website says anyway.
 

JG plumbing

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Mostly becuse tankless water heaters can't do what they say they can do. If you do the math with the volume and temperatures they are mostly inadequate. Especially if your water gets cold in the winter.

Not to mention 85 percent of the us doesn't have water suited for a tankless unit.
 

Twowaxhack

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Rinnai Tankless do exactly what the fine print says. Being able to read and comprehend is imperative, especially so if a person doesn’t have much experience.
 

JG plumbing

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Yeah 8gpm.sounds great. But then you see it can only do that with a 20 delta t. So it really doesn't do what they advertise unless special conditions are met.

The fine print isn't really the point.
 

JG plumbing

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This is interesting. The only thing I can think of to explain it is, in a tank operation, your "hot" water will eventually begin to taper off in temperature. In a tankless, it will remain constant. Do you think that's it?

I'm not familiar with the internals on these, but I understand there are two different kinds: pressure balance, and thermostatic. In the former, when a nearby toilet flushes, and the cold water pressure drops, the shower valve compensates. In the case of thermostatic, the temperature is held at the set point by a mechanical thermostatic control.

I know the Symmons were popular in New England area, but I've used them in Michigan and seen them here in NC, too.
If i was guessing I would guess the range of the pressure balancing feature would be different. The pressure loss on a tankless would be much more than a tank.
 

Geofd

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The stem for a tankless application is a ta-10
3 hole stem at least that's how it's referred to at the supply house counters,if you call symmons tech support there have stems for that shower valves for many applications
From what I understand all that stem does is choke the volume down because people undersized their tankless water heaters.

That’s the short version what their website says anyway.
In a regular symmons ta-10 stem there are many holes for the water to mix, in the tankless stem there are only 3
 

Twowaxhack

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I think about the biggest tankless is 199,000...how much smaller would one get for a whole house??
To do it right you have to size a tankless based off the coldest input water temp the heater will ever see and how many GPM you need at a selected output temp if you want it to work everyday of every year.
Most homes require two tankless heaters here to meet a busy homes demand, some need 3. Our city water temps are usually no colder than 55 degree, or haven’t been in n at least 30 yrs, I check.

In the 6 months out of the year incoming cold temps are around 75
 
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Mitchell-DIY-Guy

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Interesting. Symmons tech support mentioned nothing about tank vs tankless when I spoke with them (voice call on the phone); they said that the TA-10-3 is mostly for cold weather climate applications when the cold water temperature is colder than normal. January in Maine or Michigan. Nothing to do with tank vs tankless they said.

Who knows.

I inspected a 27 year old home last week with original Symmons TempTrols in three bathrooms. A Noritz brand tankless 199,000 BTU had replaced the tank style water heater 10 years ago. Though I didn't take a shower (a bit beyond the inspection criteria) temperature control was fine. So was flow control. Functional flow when all hot water in one place (two sinks and shower) was fine. Can't say about running the dishwasher, washer and another shower at the same time however...but that's a bit much for anything.
 

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