Well pump problems

[JeffAK]

I'm having water pressure issues. Well pressure is reading 12psi. I checked the well tank and it good at 38 psi. I put a multimeter to the pump switch and for a 230V unit it's at about 238. I'm guessing that the pump is going bad.

If I have to replace the well pump I assume the one I have to one of those slender submersible styles given the size of the pipe coming up. Picture attached. Can I "easily" swap this out for one of the cast iron pumps? I'm looking at a 1HP Everbilt convertible Jet pumps, any problems with going with this style?

Also, is it better if I swap things out to PVC pipe and drop that down with a foot valve?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Jeff Handy]

I don’t think those bare conductors are legal or safe like that.
And they are just laying on the concrete, which likely gets damp at times.

 

[Valveman]

You have a submersible pump down the well. So, I am guessing the water level is deeper than 20', which is about as deep as you can suck water up with a shallow well jet pump. Even if the water level is less than 20' a submersible is much better than a jet pump. So, no that pump will not work. Looks like three wires going down the well. Is there a control box on the wall at the end of those wires? If so, it may just have a bad starting capacitor and would get the pump back to running.

Glad you are here as it is time to educate yourself on pumps. Whatever the problem, it was most likely caused by cycling the pump on and off too much. Cycling destroys the majority of pumps. Looks like a 34 gallon size WX203 tank? Tanks look big but only hold about 25% water. That tank only holds about 8 gallons of water, which makes your pump cycle on and off for every 8 gallons used. When you get the pump back to working, adding a Cycle Stop Valve will stop the cycling and make the pump and everything else in the system last longer. If the tank goes bad the CSV will work with a much smaller and less expensive tank. Plus the CSV will deliver strong constant 50 PSI "city like" pressure to the house instead of seeing the pressure go from 40 to 60 over and over.

Find out about the depth of the well or pump setting and I would be glad to help you pick a pump. Or you can just pull it out and replace with a pump of the same size. If you do your research and get it right, you can have strong constant pressure to the house and you won't have to even think about your pump system again for 30 years or so.

 

[JeffAK]

Thanks for the response.
Jeff - Were outside of a code area, but that’s something I’m planning on fixing replacing that pump. Bare wires on the ground usually aren’t good for business.

Valveman - Thanks for the info. I have a 43’ well. The existing pump is running pretty much constantly, but not effectively to keep the psi where it should be.
How much HP should I be looking at for a pump?

 

[Valveman]

A 1/2HP, 10 GPM series would do it. You could use a 3/4HP, 10 GPM just for extra pressure like 50/70 instead of 40/60.

 

[fixitron]

Interesting! Your drilled well is actually in your house? Is that common in Alaska?
On the electrical side, the 3 "bare" wires are the well pump wires going down into the well. I see that a lot around here and the only concern is that they be run to as to minimize the possibility of damage to them. One of the bare wires on the ground in front of the well casing is a bare stranded copper "bonding" wire and the other small wire laying near it is a low voltage cable from a wall wart, probably supplying a water treatment system? I also note a yellow 3-conductor cable plugged in and connected to the top of the well. That appears to be a heat cable.
If your well is only 43 ft. deep, the pump is set at an even shallower level. The next question to ask is what is the static level (normal resting level of water in well) and recharge rate (how quickly it refills) of the well. Those three factors will tell you how many gallons a minute you can draw from the well (recharge rate) and how much reserve capacity you have (static level - pump level times 1.5 gal./ft. for typical 6" dia. well).
As noted previously, you probably have a control box on a wall, at the other end of that pump wire. It contains a start capacitor and a relay. It is possible that has failed and needs to be replaced. The best way to test is with a multi-meter. Assuming that they are still matched, the control box will tell you the hp of the pump. You can look up the testing procedure for the controller and the normal resistance and amperage readings for the pump. The pump may have windings that have shorted out, giving the motor less oomph. If you know how to use a multi-meter, start there.

 

[JeffAK]

Previous owners built the utility room as an add on with the well inside to keep it insulated. Temps get down to the -20’s and -30’s for most of winter. That low voltage wire is to a house water filter unit. The well control box labels it as a 1/2hp device. The multimeter I have doesn’t have a dedicated capacitor setting to check the Farad’s. So I was only able to put it on the ohms setting. It climbed to about 214 and then gave me OL. I put it on multiple ohm settings and it did the same. I swapped the leads and it only read zero. It never discharged the capacitor or attempted to rise. The pump is constantly running and giving a low PSI. I can feel the pump running through the pipe.

 

[fixitron]

You do not need a Farad meter to check a capacitor. You need an ohm meter, preferably an analog one, checking resistance in one direction and then swapping the leads. I doubt that is the problem, so that aside, check the pump itself. Turn off the power to the pump circuit. Pull the cover of the control box and put your meter on about the x200 ohm scale. put one lead on the Yellow wire to the pump and the other lead to the Red wire (start windings) to the pump. You should read somewhere around 12-20 ohms, depending on the model of your 1/2 hp pump. Then check the ohms across the Yellow and Black wires (run windings) and you should read around 4-5 ohms. If either of those readings is out of those ranges then the pump needs to be replaced. If the readings are good, then put the control box cover back on and turn on the power. With the pump running, clamp an amp meter around each of the leads. The Black and Yellow leads should each read around 4.5-6.3 amps, depending on models. The inside of your control box may have all of these values (depends on brand). If readings so far are good, then put the meter on the highest range and firmly connect one lead to ground and then check the resistance of each of the other leads to ground, at the terminals in the control box. Do NOT touch both probes with your hands or you will get lower readings through your own body. Ignoring the resistance of the cable (since it is only about 50 ft. long) if you are reading less than about 500,000 ohms, you have a damaged wire.
If all of those readings are good, then look for a leak. It could be a leak in the well itself or somewhere in the house. If the well is shared it could be outside the house. It could also be a clogged intake on the pump. By the way, if you are reading 12 psi on the pressure gauge on the tank tee, it may not be at all accurate. They often fail and are only around $10 or less for a new one.

 

[JeffAK]

Thanks for the info. Reading came back into normal standing for the ohms. I checked all the lines within the last couple of days on the house itself. I think my next option is to raise the pump and see if I need to replace the fittings and pipe going down to the pump.

 

[rickwhoo]

Take lots of pics...

 

[JeffAK]

Opened up the well cap/seal. It’s sections of metal pipe with threaded couplers holding everything together down in the well. No retention rope either. With the pump running I can see the water moving, what I imagine is vibrations from the pump through the pipe. I didn’t notice air bubbles to indicate a leak. Water table is plenty high. Dropped a rope/weight down and there’s about 30ft of water in the 43 ft well. What I thought was the check valve just on top of the well what just a coupler with a bracket under it holding the pipe/pump in place. Removed the fitting just above that and looked down the pipe, no check valve in place. Above that I installed a check valve. Drained the pressure tank (maybe a cup or two of water came out) and reconfirmed it’s at 38psi. I replaced the pressure gauge off of the well pressure tank and still only getting 12-15 psi. While I had the line cut above the well I ran the pump and it’s pumping water. If I need to pull the pump up I will end up having to raise sections of pipe, cut it, and repeat the process until it’s out.

 

[NTD]

You do not need a Farad meter to check a capacitor. You need an ohm meter, preferably an analog one, checking resistance in one direction and then swapping the leads. I doubt that is the problem, so that aside, check the pump itself. Turn off the power to the pump circuit. Pull the cover of the control box and put your meter on about the x200 ohm scale. put one lead on the Yellow wire to the pump and the other lead to the Red wire (start windings) to the pump. You should read somewhere around 12-20 ohms, depending on the model of your 1/2 hp pump. Then check the ohms across the Yellow and Black wires (run windings) and you should read around 4-5 ohms. If either of those readings is out of those ranges then the pump needs to be replaced. If the readings are good, then put the control box cover back on and turn on the power. With the pump running, clamp an amp meter around each of the leads. The Black and Yellow leads should each read around 4.5-6.3 amps, depending on models. The inside of your control box may have all of these values (depends on brand). If readings so far are good, then put the meter on the highest range and firmly connect one lead to ground and then check the resistance of each of the other leads to ground, at the terminals in the control box. Do NOT touch both probes with your hands or you will get lower readings through your own body. Ignoring the resistance of the cable (since it is only about 50 ft. long) if you are reading less than about 500,000 ohms, you have a damaged wire.
If all of those readings are good, then look for a leak. It could be a leak in the well itself or somewhere in the house. If the well is shared it could be outside the house. It could also be a clogged intake on the pump. By the way, if you are reading 12 psi on the pressure gauge on the tank tee, it may not be at all accurate. They often fail and are only around $10 or less for a new one.

Best directions ever! You could make a fortune writing repair manuals.

 

[Valveman]

Max amps means there is a hole in the drop pipe. Low amps would mean the pump is just worn out.

 

[JeffAK]

Amps were on the high side, 19-21 on yellow/red and 5.7-5.9 yellow/black.

 

[fixitron]

Amps is measured for each conductor, not across a pair of conductors. Using a clamp style amp meter, you put the clamp around one conductor at at time. If that is what you did, then 5.9 amps on the Black and on the Yellow is good (the normal values are listed on the back of the control box in your photo). The Red wire should only draw current when the pump first starts and then it should be 0 when the pump is running. If the Red is actually carrying 19-21 amps, then something is wrong. Were all of the resistance readings reasonable? If they were and the Red does not actually carry any current when running, then I would suspect a break in the pipe in the well or a clogged inlet. You may have to pull the pump. Then consider replacing the piping in the well with plastic water pipe. Use a torque arrestor and cable standoffs on the well pipe.

 

[Valveman]

Max amps on a 1/2HP is 5.9 amps. I think you will find a hole in the drop pipe just above the pump. Galvanized pipe screwed into a brass or SS check valve will cause electrolysis and eat through the metal pipe threads. Wrapping it with electric tape for a foot or two will prevent that, but plastic pipe like 160# poly or sch 80 PVC is better.

 

[JeffAK]

One last question before I start pulling pipe. I had someone ask if the psi gauge is before or after the pressure tank. Would that matter? Currently there’s the Tee going into the blue pressure tank then the psi gauge installed right after that, before going to the house.

 

[JeffAK]

I appreciate everyone’s help on how to diagnose the problem. As you can see there’s a hole in the piping at the pump. Piping replaced and pressure is back up. Installed a controlled valve in the piping as well. Thanks again.

 

[rafjr64]

Best directions ever! You could make a fortune writing repair manuals.

there is a check valve built in to the submersible pump already.

 

[Valveman]

Max amps on a 1/2HP is 5.9 amps. I think you will find a hole in the drop pipe just above the pump. Galvanized pipe screwed into a brass or SS check valve will cause electrolysis and eat through the metal pipe threads. Wrapping it with electric tape for a foot or two will prevent that, but plastic pipe like 160# poly or sch 80 PVC is better.

Thanks for letting us know what happened. A little electric tape over the first foot of pipe and fittings would have prevented this from happening in the first place.