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Well issues - rusted casing, which jet is needed?

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phoenixmac

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Hello all - a newbie to all things 'well' related here.

Per an earlier thread in this forum, I've just replaced the well pump with a Goulds J7. This has helped with the flow issues I've been having but not totally resolved them.

The only info I had on the well is a note written on the cover of the power service cutoff that says "60 ft of pipe in well, taken up and replaced 6/16/48". The wellhead is accessible through a 17" manhole cover and is 6 1/2' below grade in a 4' x 6' cinder-block enclosure. There's a fair bit of dirt in there and it looks like it's flooded a few times.
well.JPG wellpipes.JPG
I know the piping has been changed since then because there is dual polypipe coming from the well head to the pump. By removing the vent fitting, I was able to take a depth reading using a 3/8" stainless steel rod and a new (washed and double-rinsed) 5/32 poly line. At around 60', the weight hung up on something and I thought I was at bottom (particularly since the note had 60' of pipe removed in 1948). I jigged it a few times and then the line pulled taut and kept going. Once it hit bottom I jigged it several times but it stayed at that depth. I tied a knot to mark the depth and pulled the line in. When I got to where the line was not just wet but soaked through, I tied another knot and pulled it the rest of the way out.

Well Casing: 6" steel
Well bottom: 82' below the seal
Water surface: 27' below the seal
Jet: ~60' below the seal (assuming that the obstacle I hit at 60' was the jet)

The casing seems very corroded to me but maybe this is normal for an older well. These pics were taken after I'd cleaned the casing and seal using an angle grinder with a wire brush.
CasingandSeal.JPG CasingandSeal2.JPG

seal.JPG seal2.JPG

Does anyone have thoughts on how best to get this seal off ?

Everything I've read says to place the jet 5' below static level. I'm not sure that the measurement I took is static level, it's just the level of the water when I measured it (the tanks had filled twice with the hour before I took the measurements)

If the water level is 27' and the jet is at 60' should that be changed?

Your advice, input, thoughts, or critique would be appreciated!
 

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Valveman

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Paging Valveman!
Lol! That looks like a regular split two pipe well seal. Just loosen the four bolts, DO NOT REMOVE THEM COMPLETELY OR THEY WILL FALL IN THE WELL. After loosening the bolts you should be able to just pull the well seal and pipe out at the same time.
 

phoenixmac

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Looks like someone knows who to call (and I'm not going to say 'Ghostbusters!)

Thanks Valveman. I’ve never pulled pipe from a well before and am concerned about Murphy sitting quietly in the corner waiting to pounce.

It seems like there are two rules for doing this:
Rule 1: Don’t let anything fall into the well.
Rule 2: See rule # 1.

As for pulling the pipe should it go something like this?
  1. Attach a safety line to the pipe (I intended to use multiple wraps of 1” nylon webbing)
  2. Loosen the seal
  3. Pull the pipe and seal
  4. Remove and clean the foot valve.
  5. Remove and clean the jet assembly (leave the venturi and nozzle in the assembly and don’t break them)
  6. Put it back together and down the well.
  7. Install a new seal.
  8. Prime and pump
Any other rules or steps to be thinking about?
 

Valveman

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The well seal is probably still good. You may have to prize up on it to get it to come up with the pipe. Sometimes they stick around the edges.
 

phoenixmac

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Hi again -

I'm getting ready to pull the pipe from the well this afternoon and I have a question about the connections above the seal.

For the pipes running to the pump, shouldn't the highest point for that pipe be the inlet to the pump? Whoever put this in fit an elbow about two feet above the seal and then over to where the pump is offset (through the basement wall). As you can see, the drive pipe has a belly in it and the suction line slopes down slightly before sloping up and through the wall to the pump.

What's the best way to fix this?
  1. Just lower the elbows so that they can make a sloped run up to the pump?
  2. Bend the pipes coming out of the well and run them straight into the pump without an elbow? (The offset is about 6 feet and the rise is about 2 feet.)
  3. Other?
Thanks for any advice or comments.

P1040570.JPG
 

Valveman

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Any of those ideas should work. Anyway to eliminate the high spots is a good idea.
 

phoenixmac

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Hi again.
I pulled the pipe and came up with 60 feet of double pipe and the foot valve on the bottom with what looks like a check valve on top of it. Does the check valve need to be there?

With the water level at 27 feet below the seal and 82 feet of well depth, I'm thinking this whole thing needs to change after I can order some parts. Which ones though is the question.

Until then, I'm going to clean the jet assembly, replace the foot valve since I have a new one and leave the check valve off. Does that sound reasonable? Any thoughts on what else to do today to put this back in the hole?

jET.JPG
 

phoenixmac

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The saga continues...

Cleaning the venturi and jet was 'interesting'. For you ladies and gents that know all about wells I'm sure it's no surprise but geez they can be a mess!
Jet1.JPG jet2.JPG

The barb fitting over and around the venturi was impacted with rust/scale to the point that I couldn't get the fitting off without running a hacksaw blade around the outside of the venturi to open it up a little. How any water was getting through at all remains a mystery. I used a wire brush to get out the buildup inside the fitting and then sanded it down, using 400 grit on the last pass. Is important to have the inside of that fitting smooth to reduce friction loss?

The other thing I noticed is that the jet has a 1" fitting coming from the foot valve. Am I wrong to think that this isn't right?
 

Valveman

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Usually a check valve or a foot valve is all you need. Looks like someone just doubled up on them, which should still be OK. 1" fitting is common. Cleaner the better.
 

phoenixmac

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Hi again - regarding how the joints of the jet assembly fittings should be sealed:

Is there one school of thought or another about whether to use PTFE tape or pipe dope?
 

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Either is usually fine. But on Stainless to Stainless threads, which are hard to seal, I use dope on top of the tape.
 

phoenixmac

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Thanks.

After cleaning the jet and replacing the foot valve I used Blue Monster PTFE tape.

The flow is only moderately improved though so I either missed something in the cleaning the jet (don't think so), something new clogged it up, or it's just not right for the depth and pump (or something else this newbie is missing).

Along the lines of "in for a penny, in for a pound" my thoughts are to replace the old Burks jet with a Goulds FT4-14.

Also, since there was some fairly dense coloring to the inside of the existing poly pipe and quite a few gouges and significant hard buildup of rust on the outside of the pipe, I was wondering if replacing it makes sense (is 160 PSI polyethylene appropriate)?

Am I off in the weeds with this? Any thoughts or advice on a different approach?
 

Valveman

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Yes that would be the correct jet assembly for a water level down to 60'. I just read back that you changed the pump. It is very important that the jet assembly be matched to the pump, so that maybe a big part of your problem.
 

phoenixmac

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Thanks Valveman -

Assuming I understand the manual correctly, I came up with the following table for flow and pump capacity.

If I simply put the new jet at 60', I should expect ~10.2 GPM in flow.

If I place the jet 40 feet below the pump I should get ~15.7 GPM as long as the water doesn't draw down below the jet. But if it draws down to 15ft below the jet I should get about 11.0 GPM. If it draws down to 20' below the jet, I end up with ~8.9 GPM or 1.3 GPM less than if I'd kept the jet at 60'.

My thought is to place the jet at 35-40 feet with a 34 foot tailpipe. Does this sound about right?

Drawdown efficiency snip.jpg
PS: The pump is 2 feet above the well seal.
 

Valveman

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I would set the jet at 60' and use a 14'-20' tail pipe. It is easier to push water up from the jet than to suck water to the jet. The depth the jet and tail pipe are set makes no difference on the pump performance, only the water level. The jet and tail pipe can draw water from 80', but the pump only sees a lift of 29' if that is the water level.
 

phoenixmac

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Agreed 100% havasu!

The reason I became a supporting member when I recently joined is that having already read some of the threads, it was clear that this was a place where people that knew what they were doing shared it openly with those that needed it. I encourage anyone that comes here to either join or make a donation.

Thanks again to Valveman!
 

phoenixmac

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Once again, please pardon this newbie to all things 'well' related.

The new jet assembly (Goulds FT4-14) arrived and like everything these days, more questions come up.

Should I be adding a nipple that extends past the venturi before attaching the barb fitting ( a female instead of a male fitting I'd guess). Using just the male barb fitting seems like it would interfere with the thrust the venturi is generating.

Also, when attaching the venturi to the assembly, should it have any sealant applied? (Can't find anything from Goulds on this).
injector wo barb.JPGinjector w barb.JPG
 
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