Watts recirc setup

[pnovak]

I'm going to install a recirculating pump. I'm thinking a unit with the sensing valve like the Watts
cause I don't have a dedicated recirc line.

I'm going to put in more than one valve cause my usage points are quite apart from each other.
I'm planning on a remote start for the pump, because I want it to work on demand, but I have
concerns about the sensing valve operation.

What happens if the pump runs for a long time, but the valves shut off the water flow because
their criteria have been satisfied??

Real life example: I'm planning on a remote controlled electrical outlet to control the on/off of power
to the pump. I turn on the outlet, but neglect to turn it off and go out for the day. Have I burned out
my pump??

thanks

 

[Twowaxhack]

It’ll work fine.

 

[pnovak]

It’ll work fine.

Well, it may work fine for a while. I'm trying to solve my future problems before they happen. I don't think it would be best to have the pump keep running. What if my electrical outlet fails to turn off and I'm away for a month or two. Somehow I sense unexpected consequences.

Another question....do I need a check valve anywhere? Though I've tried researching this, I can't make sense out of what I'm reading.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Well, it may work fine for a while. I'm trying to solve my future problems before they happen. I don't think it would be best to have the pump keep running. What if my electrical outlet fails to turn off and I'm away for a month or two. Somehow I sense unexpected consequences.

Another question....do I need a check valve anywhere? Though I've tried researching this, I can't make sense out of what I'm reading.

It’ll be fine.

No check valve.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I have customers that have the same pump running 24/7.

So if you forget it’s no big deal. But it will shorten the life of the pump because it would be running 24/7 and these little pumps are what they are.......cheap pumps.

 

[pnovak]

well, here's what prompts me to write:
A pump is used to move a liquid. The only time the pipework in this application provides a complete circuit for this recirc pump, - and therefore allows it to move h2o, - is when the adapter is open to the cold water feed. This allows the cold water in the hot water pipes to be pushed around, back to the hot water heater. Once the adapter closes, you have a pump running trying to push h2o into a dead end, unless the tap is open. So, since this is, call it 'unnatural' for the pump, I'm wondering what the consequences might be. Seems to me that there could be issues caused by this. I don't know what issues, that's why I'm asking, but it's prudent to explore.

Although some people run them 24/7, I would fully expect that they are not using the adapters, so that information is irrelevant to my concerns. They would be moving h2o in a circular fashion all day and this would be what a pump is used for.

As far as them being 'cheap pumps', I just saw a post where apparently Grundfos makes these pumps for Watts. I don't know. I'm just saying what I read. My understanding is that Grundfos is not a 'cheap pump' - some go for $700....not that I'm a professional plumber, just someone who's been around.

I'm looking for information rather than 'internet answers', so of course 'it'll be fine' is a little suspect and doesn't address the question. As a bottom line, I didn't have to ask the question to arrive at an 'it'll be fine' solution. That's what I would have had in the beginning if I had just installed and never investigated.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Why don’t you call the manufacture if you don’t believe me........

Im not going to write a book to answer a question that has a simple answer.....

it’ll be fine.

 

[pnovak]

So, as a final comment. I just did a google search for "if i run a water pump into a pipe that has no circulation will it damage the pump". This is from the second result.
"
Valin Corporation is the leading technical solutions provider for the technology, energy, life sciences, natural resources, and transportation industries. For over 40 years, Valin has offered personalized order management, on-site field support, comprehensive training, and applied expert engineering services utilizing automation, fluid management, precision measurement, process heating, and filtration products.

Valin was recently recognized as the 33rd Largest Private Company in Silicon Valley by the Silicon Valley Business Journal and came in at #45 on the Industrial Distribution's Big 50 List. "

Here's an excerpt from their commentary:

 

[pnovak]

continued:
Rules to Follow to Avoid Pump Problems
Submitted by Valin Corporation
on Tue, 08/05/2014
"Most pump problems are due to suction issues. In all the years I have been in the pump business I have only found one instance of a pump problem that was related to the discharge, other than of course pumps that have had a discharge valve shut while the pump was running. Shutting a discharge valve off on a pump causes the fluid remaining in the pump to get very hot and damages the housing, bushings, seals, etc."

I'm done.

 

[Twowaxhack]

All pumps are not the same. The pump system you inquired about is designed to run continuously and without circulation if need be.

Again, call the manufacturer and ask them if you don’t believe me.

That’s too simple right ? You would rather argue about something you’re obviously clueless about.

I’m done now too.

 

[havasu]

I've had a Grundfos recirculation pump running at my house for the last 6 years. I set it to turn on every 15 minutes in the morning for instant hot showers, at 6pm to have hot water for cooking and after dinner dishes, then at 11pm when we go to bed, so we have hot water to wash our faces. If it ever fails, I'll simply will replace the pump, but I'm not worried about what could happen. This is what they are designed for, and sure, nothing lasts forever, but I'm sure not going to lose sleep over it.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Straight from the manufactures website concerning the exact pump system inquired about.

 

[pnovak]

If anyone here is stupid, it's the guy who offers a 'pat' answer with nothing to back it up, then later claims to have special inside info. Name calling - even though it didn't appear here, (but did in my email) - shows me what I'm dealing with.

If you were so sure that
"All pumps are not the same. The pump system you inquired about is designed to run continuously and without circulation if need be. "
why didn't you just say that when I first asked?? I would have thanked you then gotten that in writing from Watts.

Thanks for weighing in Admin. While I agree with you under normal circumstances, I did specify that I may be away from home for 2 months at a time.

quote-"Well, it may work fine for a while. I'm trying to solve my future problems before they happen. I don't think it would be best to have the pump keep running. What if my electrical outlet fails to turn off and I'm away for a month or two. Somehow I sense unexpected consequences. "

If I were always home, a small leak wouldn't be a problem. But I had a pressure valve go on a water heater while on Block Island for a week. An inch of water across my entire carpeted basement was no picnic. I learned a good lesson. To plan for the unexpected.

I also googled "will pump seal failure result in leaks" and guess what. Apparently they do. So, although the pump god on this forum has pronounced otherwise, I think I'll get my information elsewhere.
At least he has done us the favor of displaying the depth of his 'expertise'.

 

[Twowaxhack]

You just don’t get it.

Read post number 12 above.

It took me 20 seconds to google that for you.

I’ve installed many of these systems.

Every answer I’ve given you has been 100% correct and 100% free of charge.

You have given zero thanks.

Have a wonderful night.

 

[havasu]

Honestly, if I was gone for 2 months, I'd simply unplug it. No need for the extra electric and gas consumption. I'd also flip the water heater into vacation mode...but that's just me.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Watts claims their pump uses less power than a 25 watt light bulb and costs less than 5 cents a day to operate.

Approx $18.00 a year for 24hrs a day operation.

 

[PlumbingSocal]

Straight from the manufactures website concerning the exact pump system inquired about. View attachment 29603