Water pressure too high?

[PlumbGate]

For the past few months I have had howling in my pipes when I turn any faucet on or flush any toilette. Toilette tanks also seem to be filling faster. Yesterday, I found a leaking toilette (inside the tank) - was the Kohler valve that was slowly running even when the float shut it off. My PSI shows right over 65psi's at a laundry sink in my basement closest I can get to the water entrance to the house. Is it possible my pressure is too high? If so , is this something that the water company would fix at no charge? I don't want to start having leaks in my plumbing.

This is what the PSI shows with my Rainbird tester. This is cold only if I turn on the hot as well I get another 3-4 psi.

 

[frodo]

60 psi is good water pressure,
that is what I set PRV's at

65 is a tad high, but nothing o get twisted over,
70, i would be getting concerned
check your water entry, do you have a PRV [pressure reducing valve] ?
does you water pressure build up, then when water is used drops down, only to build up pressure again?
signs of a bad prv
do you have one of these near the water meter?

 

[PlumbGate]

60 psi is good water pressure,
that is what I set PRV's at

65 is a tad high, but nothing o get twisted over,
70, i would be getting concerned
check your water entry, do you have a PRV [pressure reducing valve] ?
does you water pressure build up, then when water is used drops down, only to build up pressure again?
signs of a bad prv
View attachment 18374 do you have one of these near the water meter?

How do I test for that? Connect my pressure gauge then go turn some faucets on and look at the gauge? Water is always consistent coming out of the tap.

Could high pressure cause all the issues I mentioned about?

Is this the PRV? Can I just turn in that screw to lower the pressure? The meter is just above that.

 

[AAP]

Fixtures are rated at 65psi for consistent use, frodo is correct PRV is the correct route to go.
If you don’t have one, you should look into one. You’ll need a licensed plumber to install and adjust your pressure.

You are o. The right track. Hi pressure will cause the toilet to squeal however your pressure isn’t very high.

I don’t think you will find help free of charge.

You could also contact your local water depot to see if they made any changes around the time you started hearing the “howelling” and more quickly filling toilets.

 

[AAP]

You have to loosen the nit to turn the screw. Try a 1/4 turn at a time. Give ample time for the gauge to adjust after you’ve run water at the new pressure setting.

 

[PlumbGate]

Ok so I just tried that. I turned it 1/4 turn clockwise and seemed to increase pressure. So I went back but no change. Then I turned it clockwise 2 full turns and didn't seem to make any different. I turned it back to roughly where it started but now my pressure is at 70psi. It this valve toast?

 

[Diehard]

I doubt water pressure is the problem.
Typically what creates sound through a water pipe is the high velocities. Since you are getting the sound when you turn any faucet on, I'd estimate you're flowing less then 4 gpm or less than 6 fps through a 1/2" pipe. That's an acceptable velocity for 1/2" pipe.
I would speculate that there is a small restriction in the flow stream somewhere, causing the sound. This could be anything like some foreign material, a partial opened or closed valve, a loose washer, etc.
It would likely be located in a main line, which feeds all of the items that trigger it.
Is there any water use item that doesn't trigger the sound? Say like a laundry sink closer to the incoming service or an exterior hose bib?
Is your water meter registering flow while water is flowing?

 

[Diehard]

Since I see you do in fact have PRV, I must ask, did you happen to have water running while you were turn the adjusting screw? And if so, did the howling sound change in tone at all? Just speculating on another possible point of restriction.

 

[PlumbGate]

Looks like my PRV is bad. It shows 70psi no matter what I do. I backed it off like 5 full turns. The PRV's top range is 75psi anyway so it has failed in the open position.

My meter registers flow when water is running yes.

As far as I can tell, every fixture triggers the sound. The toilets also make sound while they are filling (never did this before). With the faucets when I turn them off there is the short howl (maybe 2-3 seconds) around 1 second after the water is off.

I do get a lot of sediment in my lines they flush hydrants fairly regularly around here. I get cloudy water. It clears up after flushing.

Anyone want to venture a guess what a fair price is to replace the PRV valve? I have water shutoffs both above and below the valve. At least the top of the PRV valve is threaded into the pipe above that. Below one may be soldered. I called the water company they told me they are not responsible for the repair. I guess I could just leave it 75psi is a bit high though I don't want to damage anything that I have. I also like that I can top off my pool quicker when needed. Of course if the real problem is an obstruction somewhere I am guessing the sky is the limit for that repair. Maybe I should ignore all this and get that water line insurance they keep sending me in the mail!

 

[PlumbGate]

One thing I did have my water heater replaced a few years ago and when they put the new one in they added an expansion tank. I also put one of those water circulation systems in the house last year that help when it takes a long time to get hot water at far ends of the house. Perhaps that is having some issue?

 

[Diehard]

75 psi is within typical plumbing code limits and should not be a problem, providing you don't have any existing water hammer issues.
Your statement, "With the faucets when I turn them off there is the short howl (maybe 2-3 seconds) around 1 second after the water is off." is really interesting. I think that's a clue as to what may be causing it but I don't know what it's telling use.

 

[Diehard]

Now an expansion tank sounds interesting, since the compressed air could allow some flow to take place after water use is stopped. But not necessarily the item causing the howling.
I assume the expansion tank is on the cold water side?

Just came to mind, does it happen when either hot or cold water is flowing?

 

[gagecalman]

Where are you located in MD?
I am in Baltimore City.
My pressure is 75psi with nothing running. It drops a few psi if I open something. I don't have a PRV and was told on several different forums to leave it that way.
My main line is 3/4" copper.
The city changed my meter about a year ago to the one that is automatically read. As soon as they did I noticed noise whenever anything ran. I called them out and they replaced it with a piece of pipe. They didn't put a meter in. They said that is sub'd out to an outside company. The noice was gone.
About 6 months later someone finally came out and put a new meter in. There is still a faint noise but probably 90% better.
I guess what I'm saying is the noise I heard was transferred thru the copper pipe. I even heard them removing the meter before I looked out front.

 

[PlumbGate]

I am in Damascus.

I went down and turned on/off the laundry sink which is right next to the expansion tank. It is possible that this howl is coming from that tank but I am not sure.

What does that tank do? I am tempted to just remove it. I never had one before. Guy told me it was code now. It seems really heavy to me like it is totally full of water. Not sure if it is supposed to be full all the time seems counter to what it does.

 

[Diehard]

They require expansion tanks on the cold water side when the service has a device that does not allow expansion back into the supply. Like a backflow preventer or a PRV. What happens is , when the conditions are right, the heating of the water expands and blows out the Pressure & temperature relief valve on the water heater tank.
So you don''t want to remove that tank

 

[PlumbGate]

They require expansion tanks on the cold water side when the service has a device that does not allow expansion back into the supply. Like a backflow preventer or a PRV. What happens is , when the conditions are right, the heating of the water expands and blows out the Pressure & temperature relief valve on the water heater tank.
So you don''t want to remove that tank

Seems like this tank is totally full of water though, is that how they work?

 

[Diehard]

Seems like this tank is totally full of water though, is that how they work?

It should have a precharge of air, closely matching the house water pressure. The precharged pressure should have been done by the installers prior to its connection to the water system.
Take a look at this video.


I don't remember the typical water to air ratio at various pressures. I believe you can look it up at the manufactures web site or easier yet just call the manufacturer and ask them.
They do come in different sizes, so as to accommodate different amounts of expansion based on the size of your hot water system and pressure differential.

 

[PlumbGate]

VERY interesting! I got no training at all on this thing and it looks like this is or at least is part of the culprit. I just checked it and it had very little pressure in it. It had some so I don't think the bladder is ruptured but it was too low to measure on my gauge. So I pumped it up to 50psi. At the same time I shut water off in the house and drained the pipes to relieve pressure on the expansion tank per the video you posted. Low and behold, when I turned the water back on, I am now at 50psi! So not sure if this was the tank or a combination of the PRV valve being stuck and turning the water on and off freed it up. I am going to go later and see if I can increase the pressure. I checked a few faucets and toilets and at first I got a couple of howls but after a bit they seem to have died back/off.

 

[PlumbGate]

FYI: The tank I have is a bit undersized for my application WATTS shows the next size up is what they recommend for mine. But the specs of this tank say it should work ok. I have a 75 gallon hot water tank and want to keep probably 60psi.

 

[frodo]

your howling
i had a ceramic disc in a kitchen sink go bad, when the water was used it made a growling noie that made the dog and cat run and hide

a prv will not register the change in psi when it is lowered, till you open then close a valve

because the psi in the pipe is what it is, till it is bled off . savvy?