voids in solder

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Plumberx

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can you show us a pic of your torch??????thanks

this is the torch I took (for the last pic), same setting as these two guys but put the flame a bit closer than them I think.



here are the pics of my flame:TS8000_low_setting.jpg ts8000_low_setting_pipe.jpg
 
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Plumberx

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the flame I used for the 1st pic (in the 1st post of this thread) (mt575c torch) :

pic1_MT575C.PNG
 

frodo

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from the look of your split fitting i would say to much heat
what type of torch are you using?
if you are using a turbo, you must kep the flame moving around the joint
if you leave it in one spot, you will burn the flux away.
what size tip are you using?
 

TomFOhio

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If you are soldering this fitting and having a water leak out of the fitting then it is not being cleaned properly or you are
getting the fitting to hot. That torch head looks like one you buy at the box stores. I personally use a turbo torch. I use to
use the B tank with the hose but it started getting to heavy to take up and down the stairs. Lol.
 

Plumberx

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or you are
getting the fitting to hot

from the look of your split fitting i would say to much heat
what type of torch are you using?
if you are using a turbo, you must kep the flame moving around the joint
if you leave it in one spot, you will burn the flux away.
what size tip are you using?

I posted the torch I'm using (the tip came with it). Yes maybe I'm overheating but I heated the tube a little bit, moved the flame all around the fitting, put the torch on the lowest setting, sometimes removing the flame ... I don't see what else I can do.

In this article there's a picture of the same voids I have, they called it "trapped flux pockets" and are explaining the cause :
https://www.copper.org/publications/pub_list/pdf/a4068.pdf

They're saying perfects joints are rare.

Cold peel is easy, one cut on the side of the fitting with a thin cut-off wheel (4-1/2 x 3/64) on a grinder, then open the whole thing flat with 2 multigrip pliers.
 
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Plumberx

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We tin larger pipe before soldering to help avoid voids. If you are concerned you could try that way with your smaller pipe.
Would you please explain how to do this? I guess you flux and apply solder with a hot tool (which one?)Thanks
 

CT18

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Clean and flux the pipe end, then apply the solder. After that you need to wipe off excess solder. Then flux the fitting and heat the pipe end and slide the fitting on and re solder everything. I know some people will tin the fitting also. They also used to make tinning flux that had solder already in it but i believe they outlawed it.
 

frodo

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for starters,

you have a torch that is either on or off, you have none to very very limited flame adjustment

you need to spend some money on a professional torch if you want profesional results
there are 2 types
turbo
soft flame
I use both, but prefer soft flame, a good torch rig will cost around $125.00 and a tank is $100
b tank.jpg
turbo torch.jpg turbotorch-sof-flame.gif
 

Plumberx

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Clean and flux the pipe end, then apply the solder. After that you need to wipe off excess solder. Then flux the fitting and heat the pipe end and slide the fitting on and re solder everything. I know some people will tin the fitting also. They also used to make tinning flux that had solder already in it but i believe they outlawed it.
I'll do this. Although I don't see what to use to wipe the excess solder, maybe the half of a fitting or 80 grit sandpaper when cold. Don't like the idea to use a rag in the connection. I know when I sanded, fluxed, heated, sanded and fluxed again it was more difficult to separate the tube from the fitting so tinning might help for a stronger joint.
 

Matt30

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Try using propane instead of Map gas. You don't need something that burns that hot for 1/2" and 3/4" joints. If your torch control isn't thst great you will be less likely to scorch the fitting with propane.
 

Plumberx

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for starters,
you have a torch that is either on or off, you have none to very very limited flame adjustment
you need to spend some money on a professional torch if you want profesional results
there are 2 types
turbo
soft flame
I use both, but prefer soft flame, a good torch rig will cost around $125.00 and a tank is $100
The TS8000 I'm using is adjustable. Nice post for the torches, I searched a lot which one to use.
 

Plumberx

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Try using propane instead of Map gas. You don't need something that burns that hot for 1/2" and 3/4" joints. If your torch control isn't thst great you will be less likely to scorch the fitting with propane.
I did. Same result.

I can try to raise the heat of the mapp and to stay only on one side of the joint then I'll see if the void is on the same side.
 
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Plumberx

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About the article discussing trapped flux pockets (creating voids), I had trouble reading this because english is not my first language. I think they're saying that a cap of solder is created all around the entry of the fitting, so the flux can't escape. They also said to put the flame slightly ahead of the solder and move the flame and solder around the joint (I tried this already but maybe I added too much solder too quickly thus creating the cap all around).

Article:
Flux pockets that are trapped but not
burned — exhibiting wet, shiny copper
surfaces (Figure 4) — generally indicate
failure to maintain the proper relationship
between the point of application
of the heat and the application of the
filler metal. Maintaining the point of
application of heat at the base of the fitting
cup, slightly ahead of the solder
metal is essential in preventing trapped
flux pockets.
Applying the heat behind the point of
application of the solder, or keeping the
heat in one place as the solder is applied
around the joint allows the solder to create
a cap at the face of the solder joint,
through which the flux cannot escape the
joint and becomes trapped. Remember, a
trapped flux pocket will always prevent
solder from filling that space.
 

TomFOhio

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This is the turbo torch that I use. It is adjustable to a lower flame for tight spaces. Like I said I use to use the
B tank like Fredo is showing us. I still have it and the hose set-up and carrierreplaceinfo.jpg after all these years. You can use
propane or mapp gas with the turbo.
 

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Plumberx

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a few months ago I soldered a lead free fitting , a drop of solder falled in the pipe coming from the bottom of the fitting. Since then I'm forcing the pipe on the bottom of the fitting to avoid this...

Here's the last job, not perfect but better, not sure why.
-I fully inserted the pipe in the fitting then pulled the pipe back 1/16" to maybe allow the flux/air to escape.
-I used the technique described in the copper development association website to apply solder except that I didn't preheat the tube.
-I increased the distance from the flame to the fitting while heating (maybe 1.5" instead of 1").
-I added a small qty of solder all around the ftting.
solder3.jpg
 
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