Toilet - is this done wrong???? Would you redo this?

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Mr_Robot

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The Toilet in my master bathroom, after 25 years, started leaking underneath. I never had this problem before so had no idea what this involved.

I did a bunch of research on-line and learned (I thought) how to do this, that it most likely would be a bad seal with the wax ring. Pulling the toilet and replacing the wax ring didn't seem like it would be too tough of a job (assuming it wasn't worse than that, like a cracked flange or something), however I decided not to tackle this myself and instead pay a professional plumber to do it.

To make a long story short - and it gets more involved than just this, as far as things he did & said in response to questions I had which just did not seem correct - I think he did it wrong. That is, he did not remove any of the old wax ring from the toilet, he just put new bolts in the flange, put the new wax ring over the flange, and slapped the toilet onto that.

So now the toilet has basically 2 sets of wax rings squashed underneath, such that the wax is sticking out the sides (and spread God knows where all over underneath).

It looks like this (am adding an attachment below)...

I did try to ask him about this before he did it ("Aren't you supposed to scrape off all the old wax ring before you put the toilet onto the new ring???") but his answer (for most everything I asked) was "no I never do that, this is how it's done, you can't believe what you read on google")

Is it OK for me to leave it like this? Or do I really need to re-do this, taking off all the wax first then put a new ring on (again).

I'm not a plumber so maybe I'm wrong and it perfectly acceptable to leave the old gunky ring on there when putting a new one on. Everything I read on-line says to clean the old crap (pun intended) off first though.

On the plus side at least I don't see it leaking anymore.

Thanks for any answers/advice.

wax leaking out.jpg
 
That is not a professional plumber. That is a lazy plumber. It looks like crap but he doesn't care...he got your money and you'll never see him again.

Yes, of that I am certain - although after this experience, the way that he worked (there was more that happened which I was uncomfortable with), the way that he fed me a lot of b.s. in response to all of my questions or comments, I DON'T want to see him again, I would not ever allow him in my house again. He even had the nerve to charge me $200 for this (which took him all of about 30 minutes to do).

What I really need to know though is it OK to leave it like this, with all that extra wax under there, including the old bad ring??

IE: Is the issue just a cosmetic one? Or are there negative consequences like the toilet not really sitting correctly & causing unsanitary conditions, leaks underneath inside I won't be seeing, not working correctly, something I don't know about??

Thanks.
 
P.S. Yes, that is wax you see sticking out through the bolt/nut as well. Originally he did not even saw down the bolts in order to be able to put the caps back on. He told me to see how things work and that if it still leaks to tighten the bolts up so more in a few days, so let's not put the caps back. I had to ask him to please saw off the top of the bolts now so the caps even WOULD go back on when I wanted to put them on later....the whole experience was surreal as far as how slipshod he was, I could go on and on but I'll stop there.
 
The exposed wax is a haven for bacteria. You will never get that area clean. If I were you, I'd bite the bullet and demand that he returns, reset the toilet with a new wax ring (after removing the old stuff), then cutting the bolts, so you have a clean (and sanitary) look.
 
The exposed wax is a haven for bacteria. You will never get that area clean. If I were you, I'd bite the bullet and demand that he returns, reset the toilet with a new wax ring (after removing the old stuff), then cutting the bolts, so you have a clean (and sanitary) look.

Thanks. I am done with this ripoff artist. I do not want him back in my house. I just threw away $200 in an expensive lesson. I can't afford to shell out hundreds more for another plumber so I'll try to get this done right by myself I guess (in addition to which after all the negative experiences I've had with both HVAC and plumbers in the past I hesitate to try another unknown plumber and getting burned by yet another non-professional jerkoff).
 
take some alcohol, toothbrush, clean the wax from around the bowl.

get an account with youtube, type in

how to set a toilet, after viewing the process, come here to talk about it befoore you do it

we are open 24/7 might not be anyone here but we are open

Thanks. I was wondering if using a putty knife to cut off the stuff hanging outside would at least make it look better. But still the main issue to me is how kosher is it to have all this extra wax inside/underneath doing God knows what, or if the toilet is actually seated right now thanks to all that crap stuck in there that I believe should NOT be there (but the jerk plumber insisted it was alright and even "made a better seal since there is more wax" according to him).

P.S. I am in the state of Pennsylvania btw, if that makes any diff, as far as buliding/sanitary codes go.
 
Disgusting, gives the rest of us a bad name.
You can scrape that up with whatever you have, and from his attitude and lack of professional integrity, it may be wise to pull the toilet up to double check, clean the existing wax, and install a new one (and inspect the flange while you're at it)
 
Disgusting, gives the rest of us a bad name.
You can scrape that up with whatever you have, and from his attitude and lack of professional integrity, it may be wise to pull the toilet up to double check, clean the existing wax, and install a new one (and inspect the flange while you're at it)

Thanks. Yeah, I want to redo the whole thing. Adding it to my list of things to do (sigh).

The biggest effort at this point will probably be removing all that wax underneath. I just have to get some free time to tackle this, and possibly get a friend to help me lift the toilet (I am only about a year & a half removed from open heart surgery, and it might be too heavy for me).

The flange underneath was OK when the plumber took the toilet up, we both looked at it. I am hoping he didn't break it when he then put the toilet back with the new extra wax ring and tightened it up.
 
Mr_Robot, it is normal for the wax to seep out when the toilet is first put down on it. The wax actually coats things underneath to create a seal. However, it is also normal for the installer to clean up excess wax and then sometimes they caulk around the toilet (100% silicone) on three sides (leaving it uncaulked at the back in case there are leaks so you will be able to see the water and know it is leaking).

The fact that he told you to tighten the bolts if it leaks means he is expecting it to leak-- which means he might realize that the sewage on the old wax ring might have made it so it wouldn't create as tight of a seal with the second wax ring. Now, it is not uncommon for people to use two clean wax rings underneath a toilet because they will stick together, but it sounds like this guy was just lazy.

If I were you, I would contact your local department of health/sanitation and ask one of the inspectors there if what that plumber did is allowed and if it is not, report him.

I will say that I am not a plumber and I am not terribly strong, but even I have replaced a wax ring before. I think a drunk monkey has better coordination than I do and I still managed it.

The hardest part might be lifting the toilet if it is heavy. If you are unable to lift it yourself, you might consider finding a friend or relative who could help.

A tip on lining the toilet up to put it back down once the old dirty wax ring has been cleaned off and new one put on: Put drinking straws on the ends of the bolts so that you can line up the holes while lowering the toilet down. This will make it easier to put the toilet in the right spot. Once the toilet is in place (before tightening bolts), sit on the toilet to press it down. Wax will ooze out and seal around the bolts. Tighten it up, clean up the wax, and caulk on 3 sides.

One question: Does the toilet rock or move currently? Or does it seem stable?
 
Btw, speaking of sanitation....

When the plumber loosened the bolts and was about to lift the toilet up I was bewildered in that he do not first put anything on the floor like an old rug, or thick cardboard, or something like that to put the toilet down on (also I was expecting him to put it down on it's side so that the bottom could be cleaned off of the old wax ring and any gunk - which as I said didn't happen).

I had to stop him as he was about to lift it up to ask what about putting something on the floor first to put the toilet down on?

And his answer was - as with almost everything I asked - "no I never do that" and "I'm going to put it in the tub, like we always do".

I didn't know what to say so I just said "OK...." but in mind I was thinking "jeez I am going to have to really disinfect the tub later I guess, but what do I know? He must know what he's doing" etc.

So he took the toilet out, put it in the tub (not on it's side but sitting normally) then put the new wax ring over the flange and went to put the toilet back down on the new wax ring - without doing anything to even look at what was under the toilet as it was or removing the old ring first - which is when I stopped him again to ask him what about the old wax ring? Aren't you supposed to clean that and any old gunk off???? "No, we never do that? This is the way I always do it......" etc etc etc.

Btw, it almost seemed to me like he was in some kind of rush to get out of here. He arrived early and was outside having an animated conversation on the phone before coming in that sounded like he was arguing with someone. Maybe that had something to do with his shoddy work. There was other stuff that happened as well that did not sit well with me as a customer. In hindsight I wished I had stuck to my guns and insisted he do the job correctly as I understood it (cleaning off the old ring) but I backed down since he is the "professional" here.
 
It sounds like he was just being lazy. I mean, you *can* put your toilet in the tub while changing the wax ring-- but it does mean you have to clean the tub later. Generally they should put something down underneath AND clean the underside of the toilet if necessary to make sure there is no crud stuck to it that will interfere with the seal.

sounds like this guy was either having an off day or he's a very crappy plumber.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. And yeah, some guys take advantage of homeowners deferring to their "expertise". I've seen people cave on things when they really shouldn't, but it's very common. At least you learned something from it. Hopefully it won't happen again.
 
Frodo, I put mine in the tub as well, so I can't complain about that-- but I did clean the wax off of both parts thoroughly, and it was my own toilet and tub.

At least you wipe the tub down afterward.

Sounds like this hack just didn't care.

Mr_Robot, would you mind sharing some of the other things the guy did that made you uncomfortable? I'm curious about that. (Obviously you don't have to share if you don't want to).
 
It sounds like he was just being lazy. I mean, you *can* put your toilet in the tub while changing the wax ring-- but it does mean you have to clean the tub later. Generally they should put something down underneath AND clean the underside of the toilet if necessary to make sure there is no crud stuck to it that will interfere with the seal.

sounds like this guy was either having an off day or he's a very crappy plumber.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. And yeah, some guys take advantage of homeowners deferring to their "expertise". I've seen people cave on things when they really shouldn't, but it's very common. At least you learned something from it. Hopefully it won't happen again.

Thanks. Normally I stick to my guns on things and be a pain in the azz with contractors if I think something is not kosher but I was (a) just coming off working two 12 hour shifts in a row (15 hour days where I get up at 5:30am and don't get home until 8pm), (b) was really sick with the flu, (c) got up early without enough sleep/rest, (d) had to return a rent-a-car and pick up my car at a body shop after this was done (I hit a deer the week before)....in other words I was exhausted, sick, and had a lot on my plate. I caved on everything and just took the least path of resistance....sorry if too much detail.
 
Detail? Hell, that is not detail! You obviously have not read some of the threads in here. I know when many members here have headaches, marital problems and even when they have diarrhea. :D
 
Frodo, I put mine in the tub as well, so I can't complain about that-- but I did clean the wax off of both parts thoroughly, and it was my own toilet and tub.

At least you wipe the tub down afterward.

Sounds like this hack just didn't care.

Mr_Robot, would you mind sharing some of the other things the guy did that made you uncomfortable? I'm curious about that. (Obviously you don't have to share if you don't want to).

Thanks (both you & Frodo) about the reassurance that putting it in the tub was OK. Still, I think he should have done the cleanup of that afterwards, not leaving it to me, especially after charging me $200! No biggie but things like that show his lack of "customer service", at least from my perspective.

Regarding the other stuff which I got bad vibes from I will try to describe some of that later in the week, I had to work today and have to work again tomorrow and need to get some sleep!
 
I agree with you on his clean up,

hell, when i come to your house, i clean the water spots the leak left,

I learned MANY MANY MANY years ago. to make the bottom of that cabinet clean.

a lot of homeowners, will open the door, see a water spot and call a plumber saying its a leak.
if you leave a watr spot, you WILL get a call saying you did not fix the leak.

clean up behind yourself, the cost is minimal i use their cleaning products, that are under the sink.

AND, that is a gripe of mine.
If you call a plumber, get your **** out from UNDR THE SINK !!!

I come in your home, you point to the kitchen cabinet. and their are 99 bottles of cleaning supplies

soap, stuff you lost, dog treats,

you expect me to take that crap out one at a time, line them up in order, be all carefull with it ?

I want to reach in their and send it flying across the room !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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