Strange sort of flush-valve retaining system?

Help Support Plumbing Forums:

kharrisma

Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Hi Forum Folke,

My old flush valve needs replacement (leaking water constantly). I changed the flapper (OEM part), but it still leaks, just not as badly as before, so I'm assuming the valve seat is no good either, necessitating complete valve replacement.

The existing valve ( Certain Seal 400 from Coast Foundry & Mfg. Co.) looks to be screwed in to some kind of metal fitting that's clamped to the toilet casting via an arched metal bar positioned crosswise down inside the waterway, with a long screw/bolt going through the upper half of the metal fitting down to the bar and tightened, pinching the toilet casting between the retaining bar and the body of the valve body. The plastic valve body has this enormous hex wrenching-ring cast into it right by the floor of the reservoir cavity. Of course, it won't budge, and there's almost no way to get a pair of channel-lock pliers big enough to grasp it in there, not with any swing, anyway.

I'm trying to replace it with a Lavelle 723 x 2-inch top-mount flush valve with a korky plus flapper ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FL10S82/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 ). If I'm not mistaken, this valve is meant to go into the raw casting bore of the toilet (not into an existing fitting). In order to do this, that metal fitting has to come out first... and that's why I'm here.

Has anybody had any experience with this kind of toilet fitting (the weird existing one with the metal bar, not the Lavelle/Korky one)? I can't get a really good look, but I'm concerned that the depth of the water passageway may not be enough to accommodate the new replacement valve, so I REALLY don't want to break the existing valve in trying to remove it. The screw/bolt top of the metal clamp setup has a wide but thin and shallow screwdriver slot in it, and it also has a wrenching hex... but it too is so shallow (maybe 3/16" tall) that a normal socket slips right off of it, and I've never seen a screwdriver both wide and thin enough to fill this slot... my biggest (read: widest that will still fit into the slot) just starts tearing metal if forced to turn. As if that weren't enough, it appears to be some screwball size, too; 1/2" is much too loose, 7/16" won't fit onto it at all, and there's no metric size that fits it snugly either. I know it's going to be tight, having been immersed in H2O since 2004 or so, so a good wrench fit is going to be critical (probably wind up twisting the head off anyway, though....) Is there some proprietary socket that's supposed to fit this thing? Any tricks I can try to improve my chances of loosening this bolt up for removal? If the new one doesn't fit/won't work, I need to be able to put the old one back in until I can find out what will work with this unit.

Oh... it's a Universal Rundle Bordeau 4005/4006 series, if that's of any help.

Thanks for any help in advance!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Geofd

Moderator
Staff member
Professional
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
2,647
Reaction score
506
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
Hi Forum Folke,

My old flush valve needs replacement (leaking water constantly). I changed the flapper (OEM part), but it still leaks, just not as badly as before, so I'm assuming the valve seat is no good either, necessitating complete valve replacement.

The existing valve ( Certain Seal 400 from Coast Foundry & Mfg. Co.) looks to be screwed in to some kind of metal fitting that's clamped to the toilet casting via an arched metal bar positioned crosswise down inside the waterway, with a long screw/bolt going through the upper half of the metal fitting down to the bar and tightened, pinching the toilet casting between the retaining bar and the body of the valve body. The plastic valve body has this enormous hex wrenching-ring cast into it right by the floor of the reservoir cavity. Of course, it won't budge, and there's almost no way to get a pair of channel-lock pliers big enough to grasp it in there, not with any swing, anyway.

I'm trying to replace it with a Lavelle 723 x 2-inch top-mount flush valve with a korky plus flapper ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FL10S82/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 ). If I'm not mistaken, this valve is meant to go into the raw casting bore of the toilet (not into an existing fitting). In order to do this, that metal fitting has to come out first... and that's why I'm here.

Has anybody had any experience with this kind of toilet fitting (the weird existing one with the metal bar, not the Lavelle/Korky one)? I can't get a really good look, but I'm concerned that the depth of the water passageway may not be enough to accommodate the new replacement valve, so I REALLY don't want to break the existing valve in trying to remove it. The screw/bolt top of the metal clamp setup has a wide but thin and shallow screwdriver slot in it, and it also has a wrenching hex... but it too is so shallow (maybe 3/16" tall) that a normal socket slips right off of it, and I've never seen a screwdriver both wide and thin enough to fill this slot... my biggest (read: widest that will still fit into the slot) just starts tearing metal if forced to turn. As if that weren't enough, it appears to be some screwball size, too; 1/2" is much too loose, 7/16" won't fit onto it at all, and there's no metric size that fits it snugly either. I know it's going to be tight, having been immersed in H2O since 2004 or so, so a good wrench fit is going to be critical (probably wind up twisting the head off anyway, though....) Is there some proprietary socket that's supposed to fit this thing? Any tricks I can try to improve my chances of loosening this bolt up for removal? If the new one doesn't fit/won't work, I need to be able to put the old one back in until I can find out what will work with this unit.

Oh... it's a Universal Rundle Bordeau 4005/4006 series, if that's of any help.

Thanks for any help in advance!
if youlook in your tank there are numbers stamped into the tank usually 4 larger numbers and a few smaller ones....take those numbers and the brand of the toilet and you will get an exact replacement
 
Last edited by a moderator:

kharrisma

Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Thanks, Geofd. Guess I'll pick an online plumbing supplier and see what he can come up with. I don't really want an OEM valve, because the valve body was of cast brass (or bronze?) and the flapper seat will eventually corrode (probably why it was replaced in the first place....). Again, thanks for your reply.
 
Top