Shower water runs full blast with (Delta) cartridge installed or not

Discussion in 'Showers and Tubs' started by chirpie, Dec 5, 2011.

  1. Dec 5, 2011 #1

    chirpie

    chirpie

    chirpie

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    Yes, I am the stereotypical newbie turning to the elders for help. ^_^;

    So I am at the end of a bathroom remodel. I made it safely through the subfloor, heated tile elements, sinks, new toilet, etc. Imagine my surprise (or maybe not ^_^) that I'm dumbfounded on what specifically I've screwed up here.

    Let's start with pictures, that always helps. ^_^

    So this is what I installed.

    [​IMG]

    A Delta Universal shower valve.

    (For the record, the joists were already burnt when I opened the wall up. I guess they didn't know tin foil had been invented...) A couple of those screws came out of course when it was time to put the faucet face plate on, so don't worry about that.

    I used a Delta RP46463 for the cartridge.

    [​IMG]


    And this is where I am at now. (I'm praying I didn't do something REALLY dumb that requires tearing tile and cement board out...)

    [​IMG]


    For some reason, when I put in the cartridge, (Yes with the "hot" label on the left side) and turn on the water, the water runs STRAIGHT through. Full blast.

    It's like the Delta cartridge isn't even there. I shut off the water, take the thing apart, and it looks... fine. The adapter in-between the cartridge and the valve is nice and snug (really snug) and screwed in as it should be.

    The cartridge slides right in and the "V" notches on it line up with the valve like a charm. Perfect fit. Does anyone have an idea or suggestion (or even question I could answer to provide more detail) on what may have gone astray?

    Any and all efforts are very much appreciated. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  2. Dec 5, 2011 #2

    havasu

    havasu

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    I'm probably the least qualified to give you an answer, but I'm wondering if you removed the cartridge when you soldering it up to avoid damaging the fragile components? You've done a beautiful job so far and I'm sure within a small amount of time, one of our professionals will be here to help you.
     
  3. Dec 5, 2011 #3

    johnjh2o

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  4. Dec 5, 2011 #4

    chirpie

    chirpie

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    I greatly appreciate the reply back. OK, I'll admit I'm a bit confused now, so I apologize for any possible hand holding that may occur.

    The cartridge came with a 17T series faucet and shower head which supposedly has control for both volume and temperature. (For what it's worth, the box said it worked with any Delta Universal shower valve as well...) Why would they include a cartridge that only does temperature?

    Also, if the cartridge is all on or all off, should I not at least be able to install it so that the water doesn't just blast straight by it? Or am I misunderstanding what you're implying?

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  5. Dec 5, 2011 #5

    chirpie

    chirpie

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    Thanks for the compliment. And to answer your question, I didn't leave the cartridge in when I sweated the joints. Actually, the cartridge that the kit came with had to be replaced because as I was HAND TIGHTENING the screw that attaches the handles to the cartridge, the screw head broke off leaving the stem of the screw inside the cartridge. I was like, wait... what? REALLY? A bizarre fluke of a bad screw I guess as there was almost no tension when I was twisting the screwdriver.

    I tried using a reverse screw retriever bit, but that cracked the plastic head and that's when I knew I was done.

    In Delta's favor, they were very understanding and sent out a replacement part under warranty, so chalk one up in the plus column for Delta.
     
  6. Dec 6, 2011 #6

    chirpie

    chirpie

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    Finally got around to digging up the schematic for the model it came with.

    [​IMG]

    It certainly looks like the supplied cartridge (The 46463) should just slip in and be good to go. Is it a mis-match with the shower valve I chose? (If so, why would Delta print "compatible with all delta universal shower valves" on the box?)

    I think that's too many questions in a row, but I'll risk it.

    I just feel so stupid, because it feels like the answer is right in front of my face.
    :eek:
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  7. Dec 7, 2011 #7

    phishfood

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    Though has been awhile since I have installed a Delta valve, I think from the picture and my memory that you have it oriented correctly. But you might check to make sure that the hot and cold inlets are on either side and the tub/shower outlets are bottom and top.
     
  8. Dec 7, 2011 #8

    johnjh2o

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    It's quite simple. Delta uses the same valve body for many different types of trim and it can also use both cartridges, one without a volume control and one with a volume control. All can be sold separately. When we buy shower faucets we buy the valve body install it and then when the home is in the finishing stages we purchase the trim and cartridge allowing the owner the choice of trim and cartridge. According to there taste and pocket book.

    John
     
  9. Dec 7, 2011 #9

    chirpie

    chirpie

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    Well I understand the concept behind it, but I'm just trying to figure out how I fouled up using:

    A - The valve Delta said I should use
    B - The trim and cartridge Delta said I should use

    I ran into two plumbers at Taco Bell today who heard me telling my story to a co-worker. They very politely interrupted me and had me tell the story. They quizzed me on what I had done, asked a few questions, (and I even had my iPad on me and showed the install photos) and we all sat there stumped.

    I'll probably just bite the bullet and pay someone to come out, look at it, and say "Yeah, it says you can do that, but this is what they really meant."

    PS - I appreciate all the help guys. You're all quite patient.
     
  10. Dec 9, 2011 #10

    ProFlowPlumbing

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    You should just put a volume control cartridge in the valve body instead of a temp control only. Heck i did'nt even know that Delta made universal valve bodies like this, but then again i normally use MOEN because their cartridges are lifetime gaurenteed and they are made in the good ole U.S.A.
     
  11. Dec 9, 2011 #11

    johnjh2o

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    Delta faucets also have a lifetime warranty, not just on the parts but also on the finish. Moen has had a problem with there balance pressure cartridge sense day one with the spool in the cartridge freezing up.

    John
     
  12. Dec 12, 2011 #12

    chirpie

    chirpie

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    UPDATE: SOLUTION

    OK, you all knew it was going to be a dumb answer right? :)

    I'd like to thank Delta who, upon calling them up on the phone guessed my idiot mistake in less than a minute. (My rep Josh in particular)

    So first off, that cartridge does volume and temperature just fine. Second off, NEVER remove the metal plate on the bottom of the cartridge with the assumption that it is a protective face plate.

    Yup, that was it. I removed the plate on the bottom of the cartridge. Told 'ya I wasn't too bright. ^_^;

    Delta tried to console my idiocy telling me a few plumbers had also assumed it was a removable protective face plate, but man, I still feel a little goofy.

    At any rate, there it is for the next person who makes the same mistake I did.

    1 - That cartridge works fine with the multi-choice universal shower valve and it does do volume and temp independently

    2 - DON'T PULL THE METAL PLATE OFF THE BOTTOM OF THE CARTRIDGE!

    OK, that's all for now folks. Thanks again for all your suggestions! ^_^
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
  13. Dec 13, 2011 #13

    phishfood

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    Thanks for the update.
     

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