sewer smell in house

[relli1130]

Greetings. Looking for some help on a persistent sewage smell. I believe it is originating and emanating from my spare bathroom which includes a double sink, toilet, and tub/shower. The smell often will also be present in two spare bedrooms close to the bathroom. To date, I've ensured all floor drains in my basement are full. I've replaced one AAV with a Studor Vent in the basement utility sink. All other sink traps in the house receive frequent use, including in the bathroom in question.

I've replaced the toilet wax ring in this bathroom, and caulked around the base. I opened the access panel to the shower/tub and found an old AAV that I replaced with a Studor vent. I know of no other common sources to consider.

Not long ago, I purchased some 30 second plumbing smoke bombs. I took a Campbell's soup can, poked holes in the bottom, lit the bomb in the can, and blew the smoke through my outside clean-out with a shop vac. Perhaps too much air pressure to be effective, but smoke was pouring out of my roof vent. In any event, it was ineffective at identifying smoke in the bathroom. Should I cap the roof vent the next time I attempt this? Maybe with a hair dryer?

Possibilities:
1. The bathroom was renovated about 10 years ago by the previous homeowner. I'm wondering if the plumbing was never done correctly?
2. crack/hole in the vertical stack somewhere?
3. A ghost is taking a crap in my house.

I'm really having difficulty figuring this out, but am willing to try anything. Something tells me the issue is with the shower somehow. The studor vent there doesn't sit well with me. And the smell is sometimes strong in the shower and the closet with the access panel. But I'm stumped as to why the smell would also be present in the neighboring bedrooms.

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Zanne]

Studor vents are a form of AAV & are only designed to handle negative air pressure & not positive air pressure. They are known to have their diaphragms rupture sometimes. Newer ones are sturdier, but they can still fail & allow sewer gases in to the house. @frodo could tell you more about it.
It's also possible that water could be getting siphoned out of the trap for some reason & allowing sewer gases in.

 

[relli1130]

Studor vents are a form of AAV & are only designed to handle negative air pressure & not positive air pressure. They are known to have their diaphragms rupture sometimes. Newer ones are sturdier, but they can still fail & allow sewer gases in to the house. @frodo could tell you more about it.
It's also possible that water could be getting siphoned out of the trap for some reason & allowing sewer gases in.

Thanks Zane for chiming in. As mentioned before, the AAV's have been replaced in my house. In fact, just last week. So I can't imagine that the one in my shower has ruptured. It's just a few days old. Also, aren't the Studor vents designed to stop the drains from siphoning out of the vent?

Either way, I agree the AAV in the tub doesn't sit well with me. Something tells me that is where the problem is coming from. I'm tempted just to cap it and see what happens.

 

[Diehard]

You say "you've ensured all floor drains in my basement are full."
Is your spare bathroom in the basement?
I assume you made sure all the traps in the subject bedroom were full?

Yes, the smell being present in the neighboring bedrooms would make one think that the smell is coming from within the wall.

EDIT: So if the location of the offending smell was not exposed, you may not see the smoke. ????
Also, roof vents should be capped when smoke testing.
Don't think hair drier is strong enough.

 

[relli1130]

You say "you've ensured all floor drains in my basement are full."
Is your spare bathroom in the basement?
I assume you made sure all the traps in the subject bedroom were full?

Yes, the smell being present in the neighboring bedrooms would make one think that the smell is coming from within the wall.

EDIT: So if the location of the offending smell was not exposed, you may not see the smoke. ????
Also, roof vents should be capped when smoke testing.
Don't think hair drier is strong enough.

Diehard,

Thanks for responding! The spare bathroom in question is on the second floor of the house. All traps are full in the house including the bathroom in question.

Smells are most evident when showering and will linger afterwards. by morning time, the smells seem to have mostly gone.

Thanks for the attached videos. I've watched both multiple times previously lol.

I just tried putting a plastic bag around my AAV, then secured a rubber band around it and ensured I trapped air inside the bag. When I flowed water down the drain, the air inside the bag remained full. Indicating that the AAV was not needed during that time. A slight squeeze on the bag, and air was forced down the AAV. I released the bag, and the air pressure inside the bag stabilized. This indicates to me that the AAV is working properly. Not sure if my suspicions are accurate or not though.

 

[Diehard]

Like you said earlier, leaving the bag on the AAV would be a good test of whether the smell was coming from it.

Out of curiosity, what's the approximate height of the AAV(s)above the drain(s) it's serving?

 

[relli1130]

Like you said earlier, leaving the bag on the AAV would be a good test of whether the smell was coming from it.

Out of curiosity, what's the approximate height of the AAV(s)above the drain(s) it's serving?

Diehard,

The AAV is roughly 12" above the tub drain, and flush with or slightly lower than the overflow drain hole. The closet and access panel are very cramped, making any kind of work in this area difficult

 

[frodo]

cap the aav at the tub
see if that helps, If the tub drains OK and no odor with it capped. leave it capped

THIS. Is the reason i do not like AAV;s

 

[relli1130]

so I filled the tub with water. tried the plastic bag trick again with air trapped in side and around the AAV. When I pulled the drain plug, the AAV worked as it should. The bag deflated, and once fully deflated, the tub really struggled to drain. lots of gurgling going on in the p trap area. So I think the new Studor vent that I installed is working properly.

As a side note, I did notice an sewage type smell emanating from my floor HVAC heating/cooling vent in the bathroom. In addition, my wife told me today that she had to close our son's bedroom floor vent because it stunk so bad the other night. is it possible that this smell is coming from my vents, and the heat/steam from the shower is only intensifying the smell?

 

[frodo]

AHHHHHH... A CLUE, The game is afoot!!!!

This is what I want you to do.
Go find your AC unit. it is either in a closet [vertical unit] or in the attic [horizontal unit]
when you find the unit. Look for a 3/4 pvc drain. Trace that pipe to where it terminates into a P trap

It is my theory, Because of winter, [ heaters do not condensate] the p-trap is dry and the funk is
entering the house at TWO locations
1 is the trap itself
2 is through the 3/4 line into the hvac unit itself, then the funk is blown , via the fan out the vents

 

[relli1130]

well, I did another smoke test today. I tried using my wife's hairdryer. To that I duct taped a Campbells's soup can with holes poked on the bottom. Lit my 30 second smoke bomb, dropped it in the can, sealed it up with duct tape, forced the air down my ground vent outside. I walked into my basement and could start to smell the non-toxic smoke. I looked around and saw some smoke coming from my tile ceiling. And this is what I found.

I had some plumbing work done last summer. I was renovating a room into a mud room/laundry room. This required the plumber to install both new water lines and new waste water. Apparently, one of the lines that he cut was never capped off. At this point, I don't know what it leads to. Either a bathroom sink or my new utility sink. either way, it is not leaking any water.

However, once I saw smoke coming from the ceiling, I needed confirmation that the smoke was coming from this pipe. So, I hooked up my shop vac to the exterior ground vent, and blew forceful air through my plumbing lines. I can confirm that this pipe is connected to my existing house plumbing, as air was clearly blowing through the end of this pipe.

This pipe is in very close proximity to my HVAC unit. So quite likely that the HVAC was/is pulling sewer gas from this pipe, and blowing it into my house. As to why the smell is strongest in the bathroom, I don't know. But my suspicion is the steam/heat from showering intensifies the smell coming out of the floor vent in that bathroom.

****Note**** as I was blowing air into my plumbing system with my shop vac, I noticed a clear "gurgling" sound coming from my HVAC unit. This has me concerned. Why would my HVAC be affected from any air being blown into my sewage lines? Though it is possible the condensate line is tied into the waste water I suppose.

 

[Jeff Handy]

Good detective work!

FYI. You can get better air flow with a leaf blower, for those who might want to try their own smoke test.

A shop vac used as a blower might be ok, or could be too wimpy.

Meanwhile, call the plumber who did that work, ask him to stop over to explain why he left you exposed to sewer gas, and what is the source of that pipe, and to please finish what he forgot to finish, which he already got paid to finish.

Or you will be calling your city to blackball him for shoddy work.

 

[frodo]

"IF" you had done as I requested
and traced the condensate line you would have your answer

 

[relli1130]

"IF" you had done as I requested
and traced the condensate line you would have your answer

Sorry Frodo. I wasn't sure what you were referring to when you mentioned the condensate line. I only realized what it was when I consulted with a local plumber who has been giving me some guidance. I sent him a video of the gurgling noise.

I'll look for the P trap in the condensate line as you requested.

 

[relli1130]

Frodo. I don’t believe there is a Ptrap in my condensate line. It terminates in a stack in the rear of the house. The pics show the condensate line ending in the stack, gradual slope along the 2 walls, and I see only elbows. No Ptraps.

 

[frodo]

WHOOP !! DEY IT IS !!!!!!!

An illegal direct connection to the sewer system that the OP has
confirmed does NOT have a ptrap any where on the line

Mr Relli.
here is what is going on. that pipe is plumbed into the sewer. the stank is in the sewer
with out a PTRAP water seal, the funk wafts up the pipe into th hvac unit
where the fan distributes it through the house
I UNDERSTAND You found a open pipe a plumber did not plug
But you have another problem also


install https://www.amazon.com/Rectorseal-83113-113-Trap-4-Inch/dp/B00BMV6QU4
on your condensate line at the unit.

 

[Zanne]

Is it just me, or does it look like the trap arm from the utility sink is sloping upward? Just the angle of the camera maybe?

Also, that rectorseal thing looks like a great idea. I don't believe my condensate line has a trap on it, but it drains under the house (when it really shouldn't).

 

[relli1130]

WHOOP !! DEY IT IS !!!!!!!

An illegal direct connection to the sewer system that the OP has
confirmed does NOT have a ptrap any where on the line

Mr Relli.
here is what is going on. that pipe is plumbed into the sewer. the stank is in the sewer
with out a PTRAP water seal, the funk wafts up the pipe into th hvac unit
where the fan distributes it through the house
I UNDERSTAND You found a open pipe a plumber did not plug
But you have another problem also


install https://www.amazon.com/Rectorseal-83113-113-Trap-4-Inch/dp/B00BMV6QU4
on your condensate line at the unit.

Frodo,

Thank you! Question though, while this ptrap device will stop sewer funk from going into my HVAC, won't sewer gas still enter into my basement via the vent on the device?

I imagine the sewer stink coming all the way up the condensate line, stopping at the Ptrap, then simply coming up the vent. Is there a tiny AAV that I can put on the vent?

 

[relli1130]

Is it just me, or does it look like the trap arm from the utility sink is sloping upward? Just the angle of the camera maybe?

Also, that rectorseal thing looks like a great idea. I don't believe my condensate line has a trap on it, but it drains under the house (when it really shouldn't).

I'll check out the slope of the ptrap arm. thanks for pointing it out.

 

[relli1130]

Frodo,

Thank you! Question though, while this ptrap device will stop sewer funk from going into my HVAC, won't sewer gas still enter into my basement via the vent on the device?

I imagine the sewer stink coming all the way up the condensate line, stopping at the Ptrap, then simply coming up the vent. Is there a tiny AAV that I can put on the vent?

Wait, nevermind. It looks like the unit comes with caps for the vent. Should block the odor right?