Separate Shower Tub Issue

Discussion in 'Showers and Tubs' started by mildewman, Dec 31, 2014.

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  1. Dec 31, 2014 #1

    mildewman

    mildewman

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    We have a separate shower and tub with Price Pfister fittings.

    The tub had a very slow drip. We had a plumber out yesterday. He replaced the washer on the 2 (hot / cold) stems and all seemed good. The tub was used yesterday without issue, so all air seemed out of the system from when the water was shut off for the repair.

    Today, one day later, when the tub was turned on, it hesitated (hot water side) similar to bleeding air out... Then, with a literal loud bang, the water came out. At that moment, the separate shower began leaking... Not a drip, but running enough to create a steady stream.

    The tub continues to bang on and off on the hot water side (like EXTREMELY bad water hammer)... And, in checking things, it still hesitates sometimes... Almost like the washer is not disengaging or like there is an obstruction that releases when pressure builds up...... When the tub is off, no leaks on either side....

    So there is that issue and now the leaky shower....

    The plumber is coming back out tomorrow, but seems, without looking at things, quite sure that what they did to the tub would not cause a leak in the shower - meaning I will have to pay for that repair.... That is a big thing to me, as I think it would be very coincidental for the shower leak to begin at the exact moment their repair banged.

    My questions...

    1.) What is going on?
    2.) What is causing the hesitation then bang in hot water for the tub? All other hot water faucets seem to be working normally.
    3.) Could the tub issue have caused the shower leak?
    4.) Is it reasonable for me to pay for shower leak fix, or should I try to press the issue?
    5.) Can y'all tell me to calm down, that this is likely no big deal?
     
    Zanne likes this.
  2. Dec 31, 2014 #2

    frodo

    frodo

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    sounds like the washer is loose, and banging...faulty repair

    your shower. ghosts.
     
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  3. Dec 31, 2014 #3

    Mr_David

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    I always replace the seats. P. Pfister is pretty common. I would spend the money and replace the stems as well. washers loose. Could even be a part of the old one still in there.
     
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  4. Dec 31, 2014 #4

    mildewman

    mildewman

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    Ghosts? Interesting....

    When we moved into this house about ten years ago, our daughter was younger and some neighbor kids told our daughter that our house was haunted because someone had died in the very bedroom our daughter was using...

    So since then, she and our son have been thinking our house is haunted.... Even older now, they swear there have been some oddities here...

    So you just had to continue it, huh?

    Plumber will be here this AM... Should have answer soon. Thanks.
     
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  5. Dec 31, 2014 #5

    mildewman

    mildewman

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    Plumber here.... First thing he noticed when he removed the stem from the work they did is that the washer was missing...

    I remember when they were here earlier that he said a screw was corroded and had to be replaced... Guessing the screw was the wrong size....

    So the screw and washer are in our pipe...

    Shower still unknown... But my guess is the huge bang found a weak spot?
     
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  6. Dec 31, 2014 #6

    mildewman

    mildewman

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    Plumber just left... The stem in the tub needs replacement after faulty install... They will do that no cost.

    They totally deny any connection between the shower and the tub.

    My viewpoint is that the shower began at EXACTLY the moment their faulty repair caused a huge boom of what he admitted was likely a sticking washer...

    They maintain the valve in the shower must have been weak and that it had nothing to do with their repair.

    I paid for the shower, but should I be upset? Is there really NO connection between the two?

    That is just a HUGE coincidence....
     
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  7. Dec 31, 2014 #7

    frodo

    frodo

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    I think a piece of the missing washer is in the shower valve.

    only makes since to me. washer is missing, pipe started dripping...UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM> MAYBE>>>>>
    I could ck the valve and see in my missing washer is there. DUHHHHH!!!!

    BUT< I like the ghost story better. BOO!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  8. Jan 1, 2015 #8

    mildewman

    mildewman

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    Thank you all for your time... Your input was spot on... Washer loose, ironically, it seems, because it was too tight in the hole. Seems it got mangled as the valve was opened / closed a few times....

    Kind of fits what we saw... Open valve, hesitation, then washer breaks free and slides up quickly.. Boom (or bang, or hammer, whatever you want to call it) water on...

    Same with shutting valve... Did not move until we hot a certain point, then it broke free and slammed shut... Another bang, then water off....

    It is in the shutoff process, with the water being shot back into the system, that our shower cartridge was damaged. As I said, though, they disagree and we ended up paying for the new cartridge...

    Not happy, but the cartridge was at least ten years old (that is when we moved in), so I am guessing it was gonna go soon anyway...

    At least that is how I am comforting myself....

    Apparently, no more ghosts here... Both our kids are older (daughter is actually moved out, married, child, etc... but coincidentally here for the holidays) and looked at me like I was nits when I brought up the ghost thing...

    Maybe the ghost said he'd leave them alone if they swore to secrecy????

    Anyway, thanks, all, for your time. Nice little forum you have here....
     
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  9. Jan 2, 2015 #9

    mildewman

    mildewman

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    Sigh... So not all is rosy... Or the ghosts are back....

    The tub was still dripping.. Note that it was NOT (not even slowly as I checked frequently) after initial repair before washer issue)

    Worker came, replaced both stems and seats. Still drippy.

    Say I need new valve. Home warranty company will pay for valve, but access is up to me.

    1.) frustrated as I believe they caused the damage - valve was fine and no drip before symptoms of their first faulty repair showed up

    2.) How easy is access? Looks like there is a panel caulked in, but plumber today said often times they are liquid nailed in... How do I attempt removal? Is it common for faux marble to break during removal?

    3.) opinions as to the timing of all this? failed repair causing huge water hammer, and at same time, cartridge in shower fails and valve in tub fails... Coincidence? I am having a HARD time accepting that is all all just bad luck. Or ghosts....
     
  10. Jan 2, 2015 #10

    Mr_David

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    You said cartridge in shower. I'm going to presume the shower is single handle P Pfister Avante. The bang if violent enough can cause damage so it is possible.

    But because they did not initially touch your Shower valve they and most likely anyone else would not take responsibility for it's leak.

    Before you replace the shower valve I would call around and find another plumber to look at it. IF they replaced the seats and steams, and did not flush the valve you may have a piece of that missing washer that may have got lodged into the new washer. Or the seat wasn't install properly.

    I have had new seats leak by. but never again after I started applying just a trace of Teflon paste to the seat threads. Just a trace. I wipe the paste off of the seat leaving only trace. I've seen others use Teflon tape but you don't want that or excess paste getting on your washer.
     
  11. Jan 2, 2015 #11

    mildewman

    mildewman

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    I watched him and he did use teflon tape on the seat threads... When it was leaking WORSE than it had been with the new seats and stems, I asked him if he was going to reassemble to make sure all was done well... He declined to do so. Seemed logical to me... Like I said, leak is WORSE after what he did, so something may not have connected / sealed correctly....

    Shower was absolutely PF Avante... Cartridge already replaced...

    Side note... Lesson learned here... Home Warranties are not worth it... Seems they use the lowest bid contractors who have no real buy in to fix the problems because they are lowballed by the warranty company for what they get paid.... And I kind of feel stuck in the middle... Probably should have cancelled the warranty long ago and just saved the $$$$$ for problems as they come up....
     
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  12. Jan 2, 2015 #12

    Mr_David

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    Yup I agree. That kind of sucks.

    I knew a guy that bragged about the insurance work he did. If the customer had a $300 quality faucet that was leaking( did not have parts for) he would offer to replace it with a $30 Junk faucet. They would decline. Insurance pays for his service call and he moves on to the next sucker.

    Like I said call around and ask question ? find someone that maybe knows how to fix it right.
     
  13. Jan 3, 2015 #13

    havasu

    havasu

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    I remember in the late 80's, I used the home warranty insurance to replace a cracked toilet tank. Although the bowl was bright white, the idiot replaced the tank (only) with a beige color, then left. Oh hell know is what I told the warranty company. They finally had another plumber come over who replaced both the tank and bowl with a new toilet.
     
  14. Jan 3, 2015 #14

    journeyman

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    if you have to use teflon tape to seal seats there is a problem. maybe wrong seats or they got cross threaded. sounds to me like he you tubed it before he came over to fix your shower damn rookies
     
  15. Jan 16, 2015 #15

    mildewman

    mildewman

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    Okay. Just an update if anyone cares....

    When we last left, the plumbers had been here three times for a simple tub leak.

    Here is the history.....

    1.) first visit, they replaced washers / screws in stem... worked fine for day (one use of tun) then washer and screw broke loose, causing loud banging, at the exact time shower began leaking... no tub leak until AFTER banging...

    2.) second visit, they replaced shower cartridge at my expense, denying a connection... also, replaced stem - when he removed initial stem work, washer and screw had broken loose and were stuck in stem hole... The stem he used did not correctly fit, and he said they'd come out and put in correct stem when they got the part... Tub still leaked...

    3.) third visit... they replaced the stems and seats, but the leak was actually worse... They said the valve must be damaged... They said the home warranty would pay for the valve and new fixtures, but we had to provide access... Which would require removing and replacing faux marble, whch may or may not break...

    I took issue with the new valve and responsibility of us to get access.... The valve was fine after the first repair untik the screw and washer broke loose, so I felt any valve damage would have been caused by them...

    Since it was obvioouls I would fight the cost of the access, and perhaps (not sure) at the request of the home warranty company, the plumbers did ask for one more attempt at replacing stems and seats...

    That brings us to yesterday... They did replace the stems and seat (the guy who came seemed much more knowledgeable than the previous three gentlemen) and.... NO LEAK.....

    Amazing... what sounds to me like something that should be a simple fix for trained plumbers took four visits... And had I not had to pay for access, I likely would have just accepted the new valve, that apparently was NOT needed.

    The plumbing company would have cheated both me and the home warranty company had I not been responsible for access...

    Thanks for listening and your input.... I am guessing those posting here are plumbers who get a lot of word of mouth referrals... And deserve it...
     
  16. Jan 16, 2015 #16

    havasu

    havasu

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    The plumbers who volunteer their time here rarely get more than an occasional "thank you" for a job well done. We all appreciate their efforts immensely.
     
  17. Jan 16, 2015 #17

    frodo

    frodo

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    I do not get Doodely squat for my time here. I have never ask for, pay, nor have I ever giving my contact info out.
    we are trying to help others. it is very challenging to give advice when al you have to go on, is what you tell us.
    thats why we ask for pictures.


    if you need to open the wall to change out a valve, and the wall is marble or tile. A knowledgeable plumber with experience will
    open the wall. BEHIND the valve. usually a closet or bedroom.

    to ruin tile or marble, or. cut the water proofing is .........stupid
     
  18. Jan 17, 2015 #18

    plbgbiz

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    @mildewman
    Your problem originated with your home warranty, not the Plumber(s). Seldom (if ever) do homeowners receive top notch service from companies hired by home warranty scam artists. And yes, all home warranties are scams. PERIOD.


    @frodo
    You are so wrong. I personally have given you doodely squat more than once. **still laughing hysterically at my own jokes**
     
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