Replacing Main Water Line - Copper vs. PEX vs. Plastic? Which is BEST

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Azflower1

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Hi!

Unfortunately, my main water line has broken and is 70 years old (copper).

My choice is to go back w/ Copper, PEX or Polyvinyl.....
The home is in Virginia with hot humid summers and hit or miss cold winters with
snow...

Opinions?
Thanks!
 
I would rather run copper over plastic. When I flair the copper it might leak but its not going to blow
apart. Not real crazy about the compression fittings for plastic.
 
FWIW, our neighborhood here in the Charlotte NC area, just a few years old, was all torn up recently as Spectrum came in to install conduit for their fiber internet service. As you can imagine there wasn’t a utility they missed in hitting, due to poor or incorrect marking.

When CharMeck Water Department had to replace water lines they used copper. Apparently the PEX they previously used just a few years ago has been abandoned in lieu of copper.
 
FWIW, our neighborhood here in the Charlotte NC area, just a few years old, was all torn up recently as Spectrum came in to install conduit for their fiber internet service. As you can imagine there wasn’t a utility they missed in hitting, due to poor or incorrect marking.

When CharMeck Water Department had to replace water lines they used copper. Apparently the PEX they previously used just a few years ago has been abandoned in lieu of copper.

How did spectrum install the lines, open trenching or boring ?

I’ve had two customers on opposite sides of town that had their sewer lines penetrated and caused a sewer line blockage and backup into the house in the past couple months.

I wonder if they repaired the damage my sewer machine bit did to their line inside the sewer ? I chewed on one for an hour.
 
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The guys cable tv picture down the street is probably fuzzy 🤡. Tech support in Thailand has no idea why 🤣
 
Spectrum installed by a combination of boring and hand digging. Since we are not new construction but a finished and occupied subdivision some town rules apply. No open holes at night, which means no trenching unless you can fill it in the same day you open it, and no excavators in a finished and occupied subdivision. Thus, directional boring is the only acceptable method for adding a utility to an occupied subdivision. In each case that I saw in my own sub (Spectrum is adding fiber all over town here) when they hit a line (gas, water, etc.) it was because it was improperly marked. Excavators are not allowed by ordinance for utility additions such as this specifically to prevent damage to existing utilities.

No electrical was hit in my own sub, but in adjacent subs I believe they did as I'm told. In each case of a water line break, sewer line break, internet break, or even gas--the respective utilities were out quickly for a repair. This was done under a well planned project with the town and all the utilities were on high alert. All in all despite the breaks the inconvenience was minor and brief. The "Miss Dig" utility marking service, USIC, had to eat a lot of this cost since they failed miserably in marking many of the utilities. The gas company had its own marking subcontractor and doesn't use USIC.

I watched intently as they guided the boring rig up, down, right and left and it is astoundingly accurate. They placed "boxes" similar to a buried water meter box every other home and ran the bore from box to box to box. In some cases with a straight run, they ran the bore about 6-8 homes and then dug for the box once the bore was made but before they pulled the conduits.

I'm about the only home in the 32 home subdivision where they did not have to touch as much as a blade of my grass, I lucked out. However the connection box that will serve my home (if I choose to go with Spectrum) is located on the other side of the property line with my neighbor. They dug that hole on a Wednesday by hand, ran into an unmarked gas line, and then called the gas company out for re-marking. By the time they did that it was the end of the day, so with the "no open holes" rule here, they filled in the hole. On Thursday they re-dug the hole by hand again, but this time the guy "nicked" the gas line. No leak, but the gas company was called. They don't like ANY damage to a gas line, so they cut out the nicked part, and put in a splice. By the time they did that it was the end of the day, and they filled the hole in. On Friday they were at it again, dug the hole out by hand again, but the boring proceeded slower. At the end of the day, they filled the hole in. Finally on Saturday they dug the hole out a fourth time, and were able to install the box and conduit.

All in all an exceedingly costly project. If open trenching were done it would have been all by hand, and they'd still be doing it and the costs would have been higher, but there's no way you can open such a trench and fill it in a day, so directional boring is pretty much the only thing they can do.

On new construction here, they all use open trenching. They love to dig trenches.
 
I sure hope Spectrum is footing the bill for all these costly repairs? Now I understand why my Spectrum bill has just increased in price?
 
First, understand that a Federal Telecommunication Act of some years ago prohibits a town/city/county etc. from not allowing a legitimate provider of utilities from installing their lines in the utility right of way which is adjacent to every road. So, gone are the days when a cable TV or internet company for example, "bid" on a franchise to provide cable TV or whatever in a town and have a monopoly. It's the free enterprise system at work.

Spectrum contracts with a company to install the conduit and another company to install the fiber in the conduit, and who knows, probably a 3rd company to connect it all. Nobody has employees any more, just contractors and subcontractors. They charge by the foot and the house, etc. If they damage something that they marked, they eat the cost. If it wasn't marked or improperly marked, USIC eats the cost for not doing their job. In the case of the gas company, it's their own contractors that eats the cost if they failed in marking. Spectrum provides a telephone number for the construction manager for the project and their job is to get the subcontractor out to fix any problems.

Considering they laid so much conduit in a small space here, all in all they did a remarkable job. Problems? Yes, of course. But they were fixed quickly, and in all cases were from improper marking. I spent a lot of time watching every facet of this project to learn about it. That directional bore machine was amazing. So were the workers, digging in the blazing sun with heat index over 100. Spectrum didn't win any friends here from the invasiveness but there was nothing the town could do to prevent it. Federal Law.
 
At my old house, we had Verizon FIOS, which also was fiber optic and fantastic. I then moved to my new home, which did not have any fiber optic choices. I called Verizon FIOS and asked if they were going to come into my neighborhood, and the lady I spoke to just laughed and said that was impossible.

Not understanding, I asked her to elaborate on her statement. She said it was not cost effective to install fiber optic anywhere except high density areas, mainly areas where there were large apartment complexes, because they were able to pick up numerous subscribers with one fiber optic line installed.

This really pissed me off as I don't live in a "high on the hog" area, but I also don't have apartments nearby. This seemed like a income based scam, and really didn't appreciate her response.
 
While obviously there was nobody I could talk to at Spectrum that I could question about their business decision, it was kind of silly for them to go through the invasive and costly infrastructure improvements here. We already had high speed fiber optic installed when the subdivision was built and now the owner of that is called TDS… so all Spectrum will be is a competitor with service no different than we already have. The only reason to make a change would be for price. In adjacent subdivisions it’s a whole different story. Internet is delivered over cable or by AT&T and DSL. But as an infill subdivision, everything was new here. I think Spectrum is going to be lucky to get more than a few customers, and it is unlikely they will ever recover the cost of their infrastructure improvement here. I think there are 32 homes here.
 
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I wonder if they repaired the damage my sewer machine bit did to their line inside the sewer ? I chewed on one for an hour.
That's a bit weird. Here, the sewer line (house to main) is 4" PVC. The conduit for the fiber is 2.5" or 3" orange PVC. Not sure how that could go through one, it would be instant trouble. Here, they would have known about it pretty darn quickly and fixed it. I don't know the depth of the sewer lines but the conduit for the fiber is 24"-36" in depth depending on what may be in the way.
 
That's a bit weird. Here, the sewer line (house to main) is 4" PVC. The conduit for the fiber is 2.5" or 3" orange PVC. Not sure how that could go through one, it would be instant trouble. Here, they would have known about it pretty darn quickly and fixed it. I don't know the depth of the sewer lines but the conduit for the fiber is 24"-36" in depth depending on what may be in the way.

It did cause trouble almost immediately. Both jobs. It just wasn’t noticed. But the cable they laid was through the pipe. Probably 1.5-2” pipe of theirs with 1/2 the bottom of the sewer missing. 4” pvc.

They denied causing any trouble laying cable but the Sewer provider sent the camera and it showed the proof. Both jobs.

Depending on the homeowners habits and how many people live there problems can take a little while to show up.
 
Copper... Where I live in the city limits you have to run K-copper pipe underground.
the same in Canada , one thing good about copper is that if you do get a frozen pipe you just pass low voltage currant though. it and the pipe heats up and melts the ice in the pipe
 

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