Relocate laundry to garage from basement

[jav100]

I recently purchased a home which has laundry hookups in the basement/ground floor. Right next to the area is an attached garage.

Since my home has two apartments (I will rent the upstairs and live in the lower apartment (1st floor and ground level/basement), I want to move the laundry hooks ups to the back of my garage so my tenants can access the laundry without having to go thru my basement which I plan to finish.

Between the basement and garage area is a cinder block wall. The plumber would need to move the gas and water lines about 2-3 feet thru the cinder wall.

He has quoted me $1,600 to do this. Is that a fair price? I am a bit shocked it costs that much to extend the line such a short distance.

On top of that, my garage is NOT heated so the plumber suggests to add a hot water baseboard there, tying it into our existing monoflow loop into pipes already in the ceiling that feed the rooms above the garage (also hot water baseboard). The plumber wants $650 to do this and will hang it on the wall to avoid obstructing the garage and keep the laundry pipes from freezing. The hot water boiler is quite old, from the 1950s but still works well. I think this will be good also to help heat the rooms above.

My contractor friend thinks it makes more sense to install electric baseboard so have more protection against freezing but I hear its very expensive to run so I think the plumber's suggestion is right.

Can you all provide your thoughts on the costs? I am in the NJ/NYC metro area so things here are not cheap. I will call a few other plumbers to compare too.

 

[CT18]

Would be hard to say what a fair price is without seeing the work that would need to be done. Like you said your market is higher price than others. Get the other quotes like you said and then go from there. I would suggest quotes from experienced contractors that do that type of work.

 

[RS]

If it truly is cinder block and not concrete block it's very easy to punch a hole through them, just with a hammer and chisel. Concrete block is just a little harder. Sounds very expensive to me, if it was my house I could probably do it for <$100, but you didn't mention where the drain is, that may be a big part of the cost.

 

[Geofd]

If he uses the above zone that zone will shut off when the above zone is satisfied....... if im reading this correctly.i would not feel comfotable installing water piping in that condition unless you garage walls are insulatedand sheet rocked and it your roof is not insulated you maybe wasting monry

 

[Diehard]

Also, you didn't mention the exhaust flue from the water heater.

Typically, any penetration between a residential home and a garage must have all penetrations fire rated. Check your local bldg code.

 

[jav100]

Well the main drain is about 25-30 feet away but there is another drain near the current laundry location where I have a laundry sink connected to. I assume that one can be used so distance would be 12-15 feet. And there is a large drain that could be tied into that is even closer, maybe 4-6 feet away.
I took a few photos to show. Please don’t mind the mess. I know it doesn’t make it easier to help.

this photo below shows current hookups. Brown paneling is wall to the left. Gas lines are shown here. Dryer vent is near the floor just to the right of the brown paneling

This below photo shows the wall opposite the first photo brown paneling. This is inside the garage and the corner where I want to put the stackable machines in.

This below photo shows the current laundry area with the laundry sink current hook ups. You can see current water lines. There is a drain right next to the laundry tub right now. Also note the large drain that could be tied into which is even closer, behind the fan.

This below Photo shows the cinder blocks in basement area. The water heater is aboit 8 feet or so away from laundry tub opposite side of the basement

 

[wood4d]

You need to move the laundry sink into the garage and repipe the vent also. The distance from trap to vent will be too far. The gas lines need to be repiped also. North jersey is very expensive. Keeping the water from freezing in an unconditioned space with the boiler is risky too, both for the waterlines and the heat loop. Hot water freezes faster than cold water.

 

[Chris Jackson]

Yes, it's probably not overly difficult.

Water lines
Water lines are pretty easy, just extend them over or run them from a new location. Don't leave dead-legs (or dead-ends), so depending on where you're coming from you should cut and cap the lines as close to the supply as possible, eg 1" away. Dead-legs don't have much water movement, so can become harbours for bacteria which will then get into the rest of the plumbing system.

Dryer vent
You want to minimize the distance the dryer vent goes, to minimize the resistance. The less resistance, the harder the air will blow, and the less chances for lint to get stuck and clog it up (which can lead to a fire). The best course of action may be to close up the old hole and make a new one, close as possible to the dryer. I prefer to use 4" solid smooth duct lines whenever possible, and the semi-rigid lines after that in walls, if needed.

Don't put the tin-foil-like lines in the wall (it's okay for the final hookup between the dryer and the wall, but that's it), and don't use the white plastic junk whatsoever.

Electrical
You'll need a dedicated 220V circuit for the dryer, and then another circuit for the washer and plugs in the room. You can probably extend the existing dryer outlet by converting the existing receptacle into a junction (with blank faceplate) but of course it depends on what you are doing with that space after. All junction points must be accessible.

NEC 210.50(C) states the washer outlets must be GFCI-protected if within 6' of the top of the laundry tub. In my laundry room, there's one circuit for a couple outlets including the washer -- the first one is a GFCI outlet, and the rest are connected on the load side so they're all GFCI-protected. I'd recommend just doing something similar, it's not at all difficult and much safer if there's ever water on the floor, etc.

Floor Drain
I don't believe there are any specific code requirements for floor drains for a laundry room, but there may be specific requirements in your local building code (check with your planning office). Either way, it's something you should think about. Washer lines and washer valves do sometimes leak, and can cause a fairly big mess. Having a floor drain in the room will help minimize the damage if this ever happens. It may not be worthwhile to dig up the floor to put one in there, but at least be aware of the path the water would have to take to get to the drain (eg, does it have to go out into another finished room, across the carpet, and turn a couple corners before it gets to the drain?).

Insulation
Since these lines are often installed on an exterior wall, you'll want to think about insulation for them. The picture above is actually from my laundry room. I did spray-foam insulation on the basement walls, and though you can't see in that picture, there is a gap between the framing and the walls: most of the basement it's about 1", but on that section it is closer to 2", just to be sure the pipes are not in the cold zone.

 

[irhunter]

Can you sketch a floor plan...showing the basement, current laundry, doors/windows, and the garage with proposed location of laundry?

Roy

 

[jav100]

Another plumber came today and suggested maybe building a small closet around the new laundry area and putting in a small baseboard (electric or tieing into the existing hot water baseboard pipes which which already run on two walls of the proposed corner (perhaps that would keep the corner warm enough anyway? especially if insulation).

Almost thinking of a small closet around that corner - frame the walls, insulate and drywall?

You need to move the laundry sink into the garage and repipe the vent also. The distance from trap to vent will be too far. The gas lines need to be repiped also. North jersey is very expensive. Keeping the water from freezing in an unconditioned space with the boiler is risky too, both for the waterlines and the heat loop. Hot water freezes faster than cold water.

You need to move the laundry sink into the garage and repipe the vent also. The distance from trap to vent will be too far. The gas lines need to be repiped also. North jersey is very expensive. Keeping the water from freezing in an unconditioned space with the boiler is risky too, both for the waterlines and the heat loop. Hot water freezes faster than cold water.

 

[jav100]

Interesting points - thanks for sharing

Didn't know about dead-legs.

Dryer vent - agreed, this corner is towards the back of the garage so indeed I think a new vent would be smarter, it would be much shorter than trying to use the existing vent. I will make sure we used solid smooth duct lines in the wall.

Electrical - I dont think I need 220V for a gas dryer? I thought 120V is now used? I am hearing multiple opinions about needing a dedicated circuit. I am hoping to avoid having the electrician visit too!

Floor Drain - this corner sits right in the back of the garage, which then faces our sloping downwards backyard so I am not too concerned about draining flooding. This is one of the reasons why we wanted to avoid putting a separate laundry upstairs for the tenants - because of fears it would leak into our house causing big damage. The problem is that most people who rent want laundry and our existing hooks up are in our basement which we plan to convert to a finished space, and do not want our tenants to have access to, so moving it to the garage seems like the only solution. Unfortunately, tenants will have to walk outside to access but it is what it is.

Insulation - can you repost photo? It didn't come thru

Yes, it's probably not overly difficult.

Water lines
Water lines are pretty easy, just extend them over or run them from a new location. Don't leave dead-legs (or dead-ends), so depending on where you're coming from you should cut and cap the lines as close to the supply as possible, eg 1" away. Dead-legs don't have much water movement, so can become harbours for bacteria which will then get into the rest of the plumbing system.

Dryer vent
You want to minimize the distance the dryer vent goes, to minimize the resistance. The less resistance, the harder the air will blow, and the less chances for lint to get stuck and clog it up (which can lead to a fire). The best course of action may be to close up the old hole and make a new one, close as possible to the dryer. I prefer to use 4" solid smooth duct lines whenever possible, and the semi-rigid lines after that in walls, if needed.

Don't put the tin-foil-like lines in the wall (it's okay for the final hookup between the dryer and the wall, but that's it), and don't use the white plastic junk whatsoever.

Electrical
You'll need a dedicated 220V circuit for the dryer, and then another circuit for the washer and plugs in the room. You can probably extend the existing dryer outlet by converting the existing receptacle into a junction (with blank faceplate) but of course it depends on what you are doing with that space after. All junction points must be accessible.

NEC 210.50(C) states the washer outlets must be GFCI-protected if within 6' of the top of the laundry tub. In my laundry room, there's one circuit for a couple outlets including the washer -- the first one is a GFCI outlet, and the rest are connected on the load side so they're all GFCI-protected. I'd recommend just doing something similar, it's not at all difficult and much safer if there's ever water on the floor, etc.

Floor Drain
I don't believe there are any specific code requirements for floor drains for a laundry room, but there may be specific requirements in your local building code (check with your planning office). Either way, it's something you should think about. Washer lines and washer valves do sometimes leak, and can cause a fairly big mess. Having a floor drain in the room will help minimize the damage if this ever happens. It may not be worthwhile to dig up the floor to put one in there, but at least be aware of the path the water would have to take to get to the drain (eg, does it have to go out into another finished room, across the carpet, and turn a couple corners before it gets to the drain?).

Insulation
Since these lines are often installed on an exterior wall, you'll want to think about insulation for them. The picture above is actually from my laundry room. I did spray-foam insulation on the basement walls, and though you can't see in that picture, there is a gap between the framing and the walls: most of the basement it's about 1", but on that section it is closer to 2", just to be sure the pipes are not in the cold zone.

 

[jav100]

Here is a diagram of the lower level of my house (car garage on left, basement/ground floor on the right). Note my property slopes down from the garage door to the rear door/backyard, so one benefit, I think of moving laundry to my garage is eliminating any water leak catastrophes because water would simply stay in garage and go outside.

Other key things to note:
My garage has hot water pipes in the ceiling on almost every wall, I thought maybe this would be enough to heat the proposed laundry corner if i build a closet around it, if not perhaps I can install a electric baseboard or a small hot water baseboard (again pipes are already in the ceiling, on two walls of the corner). With asmall insulated closet, I would keep the laundry closet warm. Another thought is to build a vent between the wall of my garage and basement which is heated with a baseboard, and will have more heating added later as i finish it more.

I plan to install two front loaders, stacked on top of each other. My garage height gives me about 80 inches, the machines total heigh is 78.33. I have read I need about an inch clearence.

My garage is poorly insulated, the garage door is 60 years old. Will replace soon. My plumber suggested just to add a few baseboards and heat entire garage but the plumber today thinks it wouldnt work and the baseboard wouldnt keep up, this plumber first suggested a gas forced air type of heater to keep it warm but I do not like the idea, giving bedrooms above the garage and possible fumes.

here is my diagram below (sorry for bad handwriting) - gas dryer means the pipe feeding the gas into dryer. the 2inch drain pipe also has a vent pipe next to it

 

[irhunter]

How about keeping the laundry where it is? Build an interior wall to make it a fully-enclosed laundry. Entry for the tenants would be through the existing door from the garage. There would be a lockable door between the laundry and your basement.

Your new finished basement would be smaller.

Roy

 

[jav100]

That’s an idea too. Trying to convince wife

especially if adding the interior wall and door is much cheaper. Have to price it out.

But does reduce our future potential space and then the machine can leak inside our ground level area.

Never thought this would require so much thought!

How about keeping the laundry where it is? Build an interior wall to make it a fully-enclosed laundry. Entry for the tenants would be through the existing door from the garage. There would be a lockable door between the laundry and your basement.

Your new finished basement would be smaller.

Roy

 

[irhunter]

It just seems that your cost to do it out in the garage is spiraling.

I guess it could leak...but, people all over have washing machines in their living spaces...without a lot of issues. Just keep your water-supply hoses reasonably fresh.

 

[jav100]

Another plumber quoted $1900, $200 more than the original plumber.

This one said heating the garage with hot water baseboard would be a waste and suggested a gas forced air blowing heater (modine?) instead, but the idea of having a open flame heating system in our garage directly below two bedrooms is not too attractive

They suggested as an alternative to build a closet around the laundry area and put an electric baseboard or hot water baseboard given the pipes run along those corners, and insulate those walls to keep the laundry closet warm. I also thought i could just install damper vent between the laundry closet and the basement to allow warm air to go in there from my heater basement to avoid having to put in any type of baseboard - electric baseboard would probably need to be hardwired.

 

[Jeff Handy]

You can’t let house air mix directly with the garage air.

If a car is left running in the garage, exhaust can get into the house and kill you.

 

[irhunter]

What do you get for the $1,900?

Gas, cold/hot water, drain for sink and washer out in the garage? Anything else? Interior wall for garage, the sink itself, heat out there?