Re-plumb after pipes stolen

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aDHuM

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So, the copper to my property was stolen -- at least they shut off the water -- and so now I am left with the job of re-plumbing the basement.

I have access to make all the connections in the basement using existing lines to run to the second floor to the kitchen, and third floor for the bathroom.

I have been given a few quotes and felt that these plumbers must think I'm not going to do my homework.

Here are the diagrams of how I imagine the plumbing to be.
I plan to use CPVC, as the cost is low, installation is easy and it has been recommended as the preferred option by at least 2 of the 5 plumbers I spoke with.

What I'm looking to find out is:
1. Where do I need valves for any shut-offs?
2. Are the couplers that I plan to use going to work in this application?
3. Is either design BETTER than the other? How can they be improved?

(To attach to the water heater I have 15" flexible extensions to avoid heat damage to the CPVC)

Need more info? Please ask.

Plumbing basement.jpg

Plumbing basement Alt.jpg
 
Either way will work fine. As far as valves go put a set on the 3rd floor risers. But I don't like your choice of pipe. If your not going to use copper, PEX would be the better choice. We are starting to see CPVC getting brittle after time, especially on the hot water lines. You can still use your shark bites as PEX has the same OD as copper and CPVC. There again I would prefer to use a copper to PEX fitting. In place of the shark bites.

John
 
One of my concerns is that there is an obvious amount of sunlight that comes into the basement. I've read PEX is affected by "direct" sunlight -- this would not be direct, but exposure to 'light' for hours everyday none the less.

Thoughts?

Also, when I look at my own WH, there is a ball valve shut off right before water goes in from the cold line. I can only assume that is there if there becomes a need to change the WH to avoid the pipe from dripping after shut-off. Not a code necessity?
 
The amount of sunlight you get in the basement won't effect the PEX. Are you aware that CPVC is also effected by direct sunlight? Yes you need a valve on the cold line feeding the heater.

John
 
Ok, I'm convinced...I'll use PEX. I'll admit, when I first was looking to DIY on this project, I wanted to use PEX, but got steered in the direction of CPVC by a trusted friend. (Plus now I don't have to wait for a buddy to use his truck to haul 10' lengths of CPVC)

Now, I just need advice on the crimping method. I see copper CRIMP rings and then Stainless Steel CINCH rings.

I'll need 1/2", 3/4", and a removal tool right?

Unless someone has a suggestion for the best value tool out there...
The cost of the tools alone are going to exceed that of doing a CPVC install.
 
If you are in a climate which is subject to freezing conditions, I've heard PEX is far better than CPVC.
 
aDHuM said:
Ok, I'm convinced...I'll use PEX. I'll admit, when I first was looking to DIY on this project, I wanted to use PEX, but got steered in the direction of CPVC by a trusted friend. (Plus now I don't have to wait for a buddy to use his truck to haul 10' lengths of CPVC)

Now, I just need advice on the crimping method. I see copper CRIMP rings and then Stainless Steel CINCH rings.

I'll need 1/2", 3/4", and a removal tool right?

Unless someone has a suggestion for the best value tool out there...
The cost of the tools alone are going to exceed that of doing a CPVC install.
Click to expand...

You can buy the tools on E-bay then when your finished with the job resale them on E-bay.

John
 
I love that tool ^^ But I find no downsides really to the SS cinch rings.

make sure you have no Pex withing 18" of the hot water tank, and dont use sharkbite if you can avoid it this product has not seen the test of time. Definatelly do not use it in non accesibble locations.

you can buy uv stabilized pex that wond degrade in sunlight but another easy option is to simply insulate any waterlines that will be exposed

note that if your hot water tank is vented with single wall you cannot have combustibles within 6" of this pipe, this includes the Foam type insulation ( fibreglass would be okay )

as far as cost for tools goes, The Cinch rings are also the cheapest ( even though You CAN buy expensive ones ) all you need is a pex cutter ( $10 ) and a cinch tool ( under $100 ) and you;re off to the races.

If you buy a tool that comes with rings do yourself a favor and DONT use those rings, they are cheaply made although they appear to be the same rings I can assure you they are not.

Just wanted to add that I personally Hate cpvc, i think its total garbage.

If you do get an expansion Type tool Like Ap above has shown ^ just know that these will not work on pex fittings they require a fitting designed for the application.
 
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wow Liquid, i didnt know you had so much experiance with pex, here in california all the new houses are using the expander, as a service and repair plumber myself i hated this change from copper, but as they say, if you cant beat them, join them, i did my research with the diff type of pex, from the crimp, cinch or expander, and most plumbers prefer the expander, takes up less space, i repipe an entire house in this in 1 day, 2 bath, laundry, kitchen with hose bibs, water heater by myself and a helper, and yes it was nice work, i dont play that ugly card.. so im excited to own my own tool now and get buzy.. i only run pex in the attic or down below, in the wall, but i make up a copper stub out strapped TIGHT, nothing worse than pex stub out..
 
oh yea, you have to use pex-a type pipe and either the plastic fittings or brass one.. either way the fitting must be cared for, no nicks or gashes from banging around in your tool tray... good luck

pexbrass.jpg

pexplastic.jpg

pexwhite.jpg
 
yeah AP, where i live pex is the preferred choice and is used extensively. I have used the expanders on wirsbo piping and I like them lots Except that it also gets to -25 C here in the winter and then expanders are a real pain in the ass cause the pipe takes a long time to return to its original state. ( even with heat packs sometimes )

I totally Agree with the pex stubout thing... i hate pex stubouts, they are ooogley.

i have a hand expander myself but the one you showed from milwuakee is super nice, I would definatelly look into getting one if my company did more of this type of jointing.

I reccomend the plastic fittings over the brass ones, we have had a few brass fittings fail on us ( y know how they keep talking about thinner pipe walls for "improved flow charactoristics" ?? .. yeeeah ) and in all cases it has been a clean shear where the ribbed part of the fitting met the 90 Body.

Redardless... know anyone who wants to buy a full set of the copper crimpers? lol :)
 
If its a DIY, i highly doubt you're going to want to shell out a mortgage payment for the pro-pex expansion tool. However, that is absolutely, 100% the way to go. Theres nothing that will ever rot out, its all plastic, including the rings. Nothing better.
 
Just a thought...

If CPVC is now known to become brittle over time carrying heated water (and is now first being noticed) (and I have also read concerns about leaching), how would one be sure PEX will not display similar characteristics somewhere down the road?

EDUMACATE ME! ;)
 
As far as it becoming brittle, it is of a different composition of chemicals.
pex is cross linked polyetylene, and basically only really gets brittle if exposed for long periods to sunlight, and as mentioned there are now uv stabilized pipe.

Pex From wiki cut .

Possible health effects. There was controversy in California during the 2000s about health concerns. Several groups blocked adoption of PEX for concerns about chemicals getting into the water, either from chemicals outside the pipes, or from chemicals inside the pipes such as methyl tertiary butyl ether and tertiary butyl alcohol.[21] These concerns delayed statewide adoption of PEX for almost a decade. After substantial "back-and-forth legal wrangling" which was described as a "judicial rollercoaster", the disputing groups came to a consensus, and California permitted use of PEX in all occupancies.[22][23] An environmental impact report and subsequent studies determined there were no causes for concerns about public health from use of PEX piping

-and the real pain of it is that many in use service water piping ( like Transite ) are known to cause cancer so regardless of weather the tubing will leach...
 
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