Questions About Pressure Tanks/Maintenance

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mzimmers

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Hi all -

I've lived in my current house for a couple years now. The community is served by a well. I have a pump and two pressure tanks. Lately I've noticed the pump coming on quite frequently, even when no water is running. The system is over 20 years old, so it's possible that it needs to be completely redone. I don't pretend to be a plumbing expert, but there's a lot about this installation that I'm not impressed with, mostly the idea of a high-voltage device like a pump sitting on the ground. The tanks were also installed without drain valves, making recharging them a little harder.

My equipment consists of:
- a Sta-Rite 1HP pump with 1 1/4" inlet and 1" outlet
- two (2) Amtrol WX-302 tanks.

So, my questions:

1. The community water inlet is 1" pipe. This gets expanded to 1 1/4" for pump inlet. Pump outlet is 1", expanded to 1 1/4 again to go to the tanks and house. If I have to re-do this, wouldn't it make more sense to reduce the tanks to 1" and use all 1" pipe and fittings (of course, I'd have to adapt up to 1 1/4" for going to the house.
2. Do I really need two tanks this size? There are 3 bathrooms in the house, but really only 2 ever get used (one is in the basement). No lawn; all irrigation is drip. If it turns out my tanks are bad, I don't want to get more than I really need.
3. What do people normally do about protecting the pump from the elements?

Thanks; I appreciate any input.
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Shut off the power to the pump, and bleed off the pressure, then check the preload pressure at the shrader valve on top of the tank. If your pressure control switch is set to run 40 -60 psi, then the preload in the tank should be 38. I fit's less tan this air it up and see how long it lasts. If the problem comes back soon then you need a new tank.
 
When you say "bleed off the pressure," you mean drain the tanks of water, right? Draining them completely might be tough, as the installer didn't include a drain valve; do they need to be empty, or just really low?

Thanks...
 
Yes, but you don't need to "drain the tanks", you just need to reduce the system pressure to 0. Don't worry about not having drain valves on the tanks, that would be nice if you have to change them, but otherwise not necessary. If you have to add air to the schrader valve on the top of the tank be sure to have a faucet open somewhere, the air will push out the excess water. If the tanks are properly pre-charged with air there should be no water in them when the system pressure is below 38 psi, If your running 40-60. It's always supposed to be about 2 psi below the cut-in pressure.
 
I just read through your original thread again, and if the pump is starting with no water being used (that you know of) then possibly you have a bad check valve. I can't really tell where it is, maybe the larger fitting between the pump and pressure tank. Check for leaks in the house, toilet tank valves are the most common, they can leak a little and not be obvious. You have some isolation valves, so you can troubleshoot and possibly find the problem. I see a ball valve in the supply line to the pump, turn off the power to the pump and shut that valve, it the pressure holds constant you probably have a bad check valve. Do not let the pump start with that valve shut. As far as the pump sitting on the ground, if it's properly grounded it's not a safety issue, where we live most people have pumps sitting like that to pump water out of the lake for their lawn.
 
Thanks, that's all good information. So, I open the water system to reduce pressure, then close it back up, *then* add air as necessary? Or, do I add air with the water system open?

I'm not even sure there's a check valve in that mess of fittings. I'll take a closer look tomorrow when it's light out.
 
There has to be a check valve , otherwise your system would not hold pressure. Does your pump get its water from a main that others are connected to, or does you suction line go all the way to the well? If your suction line goes all the way down in the well then the check might be down in the well, and called a foot valve. You should leave the system open when adding air, so the excess water can escape.
 
Mzimmer's original remarks state that the pump comes on frequently even when no water is running. If the pump is cycling a lot, then one or both tanks may be water logged from failed diaphragms. Tap the top and bottom of each tank. The top should have a bit of a ring to it if it is full of air. If it is full of water, it will sound dull when tapped on the side with something. If the top is full of water, you will need a new pressure tank but you can buy some time by following the steps described by RS to check the pre-charge pressure. Leave the pump off and a faucet open when doing that pressure check. Then use a compressor to out air into the Schraeder valve (same as on a tire) to put air into the top of the pressure tank, which will blow the water out of the top of the tank. When you have blown down about 1/3 of the tank volume, shut the faucet and keep adding air until the pressure gets up to 28 psi. Check the pressure and add air just like you would a tire using a tire pressure gauge. Then turn on the pump.
 
Thanks, guys. RS: I'm not sure about your question. All I know is there's a main well and a pump somewhere in the community. Fixitron: I'll try your test later today. How will I know when I've blown out 1/3 of the tank volume? BTW: I believe my magic number is 38 PSI, not 28, as my switch is 40-60.
 
Sorry I just saw this. All good advice above. The bladder in those tanks is destroyed by the pump cycling on and off too much. It is hard not to cycle a pump to death with a drip system, as they don't use enough water to keep the pump running continuously. The check valve or foot valve also gets destroyed from slamming closed every time the pump cycles off. The pressure switch, and everything else in the system, most importantly the pump, are all destroyed by the pump cycling on and off too much.

Use a Cycle Stop Valve to stop the cycling, which it will do even with a 1 GPM drip system, then you only need a little 4.5 gallon size tank instead of two of those 80 gallon size tanks. The CSV will save you money, make the pump system last longer, and deliver strong constant 50 PSI to the house and garden instead of the pressure bouncing from 40 to 60 over and over.

 
Hi Valveman -

Thanks for the very informative reply; I'd never heard of a cycle stop valve. A few follow-up questions:

1. If I add one of these to my system, is it actually recommended that I replace my two large tanks with one smaller one?
2. If not, and I keep both tanks, do I need two valves?
3. If it is recommended to go with a smaller tank, I'd like to look into the possibility of relocating everything. It's kind of an eyesore in my front yard. I'm attaching a picture of where the water enters the house. Notice the reading on the pressure gauge? That goes to my fire sprinkler system, but I have no idea how it attains that level of pressure. My concern would be that if I install the pump/etc. in the garage (past this) I might somehow screw up my fire sprinkler system.

I hope this makes sense...there's sure a lot about this I don't know.

Thanks.
 

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Sorry for the delay. Forgot to look over here in plumbing. Yes the CSV will work with two big tanks or just one small one. The setting is just a little different for large tanks or a small tank. However, you really don't need those two big tanks with a CSV. They are just a waste of space and money. Your water comes from the well and pump, not the tanks. Shouldn't have anything to do with the fire sprinklers. That 100 PSI on the gauge doesn't look right. But there is a check valve below that gauge. Just thermal expansion in the lines could have caused the high pressure, and the check valve keeps it held in there.
 
I finally got around to working on this today. The pressure in the tanks was rather low (one was about 24 PSI; the other about 32 PSI). I replaced the check valve while I was at it. If this helps, I'll leave it for now; if not, I'll look at replacing the tanks.
 
I finally got around to working on this today. The pressure in the tanks was rather low (one was about 24 PSI; the other about 32 PSI). I replaced the check valve while I was at it. If this helps, I'll leave it for now; if not, I'll look at replacing the tanks.

If you replace the tanks, all you need is a PK1A like this.

pk1a-md.jpg
 
Hi Valveman -

My current set-up has the pipes kind of hugging the concrete slab. Is there a configuration option for moving the tank to the side of (or above) the main line?
 

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