PEX-A pipe does not return to it's original size after expanding. Is this normal or the tool is overexpanding?

[ymg200]

Hi,
This is my first ever experience with PEX. I bought a manual expanding tool made by iCrimp (the model with auto-rotating head), 1/2" Apollo pipe and Apollo expansion rings.
I've tested how the tool works by expanding the pipe. I have verified that the barb (made by Apollo) can go into the expanded pipe, then removed the barb before the pipe has shrunk. I assumed that the pipe would return to it's original size, but it did not. I waited for couple of hours waiting for the pipe to shrink. Attached pictures show two ends of the same pipe - the original size and after the expansion. The expanded end shrunk enough so that I could remove the expansion ring, but it is still way bigger than non-expanded end. Before the expansion the barb could not go into the pipe at all. After the expansion I can easily insert the barb into the pipe up to the tall ridge that's in the middle of the barb. This indicates that if I left the barb inside the pipe, it would have sealed only on that single tall ridge. If that was by design, then there would be no need for other ridges on the barb.
As I said, I had no prior experience with PEX, so I have nothing to compare this to. Is it possible that the pipe doesn't return to it's size because the tool expanding it too much? Should the pipe shrink back to it's original size and become smaller than the barb like it was before the expansion?

 

[Twowaxhack]

Make sure the tool is lubricated and you follow the directions that came with the tool.

I suggest you just using the crimp style pex with the copper crimp rings for most applications. There are benefits to the expansion pex in some instances but there’s not always a benefit.

I use both expansion and the crimp style fitttings with copper crimp rings. I use Rehau pex A for both.

 

[ymg200]

The tool is lubricated and the directions are to fully open and close the handles (similarly to a crimp tool) - can't get simpler than that.
I have selected expansion PEX over the crimp style for a number of reasons and I see no reason why expansion PEX would not work.
All questions in my original post remain unanswered.

 

[Arctic trouble]

Double check the markings printed on the pex itself not just the sticker. Possibly mislabeled... Yes it is supposed to drop back to its original size.

 

[Twowaxhack]

The tool is lubricated and the directions are to fully open and close the handles (similarly to a crimp tool) - can't get simpler than that.
I have selected expansion PEX over the crimp style for a number of reasons and I see no reason why expansion PEX would not work.
All questions in my original post remain unanswered.

Good luck to you on your quest for answers

 

[Twowaxhack]

I notice there’s no expansion ring on your pipe. Why not ? You don’t think you over expanded it ?

Read the directions again……

And Good luck

It’s possible fairy’s are being tricksters………

 

[ymg200]

Double check the markings printed on the pex itself not just the sticker. Possibly mislabeled... Yes it is supposed to drop back to its original size.

The pipe says pex-a.

I just tested the barb in the pipe again. It still goes in until the high ridge, but the fit on the entry portion of the barb is now snug. That means that the pipe is still shrinking (3 hours since expansion).
I will keep reporting here on the progress of shrinking.

I'm inclined to blame the tool for overexpanding because the barb went in with plenty of clearance when I just expanded the pipe. I'm baffled though because I bought the new tool made by the brand name. Amazon has 309 ratings for this tool averaging 4.4 stars.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Double check the markings printed on the pex itself not just the sticker. Possibly mislabeled... Yes it is supposed to drop back to its original size.

No doubt, you can’t trust stickers

 

[ymg200]

I notice there’s no expansion ring on your pipe. Why not ? You don’t think you over expanded it ?

Read the directions again……

And Good luck

It’s possible fairy’s are being tricksters………

As I explained in the original post (see above), I have removed the expansion ring once the pipe has shrunk.
Those tricksters....

 

[Twowaxhack]

As I explained in the original post (see above), I have removed the expansion ring once the pipe has shrunk.
Those tricksters....

You’re over expanding it. Either it’s that Chinese made tool or you.

It’s up to you to decide which.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Make sure you’re not using a 5/8” head on 1/2” pipe.

 

[Arctic trouble]

Put some heat to it with a heat gun or hair dryer. If it doesn't drop back to original size try to nail down the issue before moving forward. I have had slow contractions but not hours and at very cold temps but always returns.

 

[ymg200]

Make sure you’re not using a 5/8” head on 1/2” pipe.

 

[ymg200]

Put some heat to it with a heat gun or hair dryer. If it doesn't drop back to original size try to nail down the issue before moving forward. I have had slow contractions but not hours and at very cold temps but always returns.

I was thinking of using a heat gun because I've seen videos on youtube how to fix a kink on a pex-a pipe. I haven't used a heat gun because I want to see how it works in a normal manner.
I will get a 3/4 pipe and will try the same test on a 3/4. It is possible that the 1/2 head overexpands, but the 3/4 doesn't.
I will put a block between handles to prevent them from fully closing, thus preventing from overexpanding.

 

[Twowaxhack]

The instructions should give a recommendation as to the number of expansions you perform on the various size pex connections.

If not, consult the literature from the tube and fitting manufacturer

 

[Twowaxhack]

 

[breplum]

Do some bench tests I suppose, or call the mfr.
Normally, pex A is completely foolproof with good equipment.

 

[ymg200]

18 after the expansion: the expanded end is still bigger, although it keeps shrinking very slowly (compare with pics from previous posts).
to recap:
2 hours - I could freely insert the barb up to the middle ridge
6 hours - the barb was snug on the front end, but I could still insert it up to the middle ridge
18 hours - the barb is tight on the front end, but I could use force to push it up to the middle ridge

 

[mbhoag]

I use a milwaukee expansion tool for Pex A, and it cannot "over expand" the tubing...the tool can only expand itself so far.

Looking at the photos, this is what I see...
The expansion ring should NOT come off after the tubing shrinks back down.. even if you put an expansion ring on tubing (and do not put it onto a fitting). I have never had one where the expansion ring will just 'come off' by itself.
The image of the pex on the brass fitting is not correct, the tubing should go OVER the large ridge in the middle. That keeps the tubing from sliding off the fitting. There should be an expansion ring on the end of the tube as well. It should be pushed all the way onto the fitting before it shrinks itself back down.

I do not have "Apollo" brand Pex here, but I use Sioux Chief to keep cost down (Wirsbrough pex is best, but it is twice the cost IMHO), so I am not familiar with how well it works.

This is what completed Pex A attachment should look like. Note tubing is fully inserted into expansion fitting, then it is expanded, then quickly slide it onto fitting to shrink back down.

 

[ymg200]

after 18 hours of waiting I finally took the heat gun. It shrunk very fast - I could see it shrinking with my eyes.
The size after the heat gun is still slightly bigger than the non-expanded end, but the front edge of the barb does NOT fit into the pipe anymore. See the pics.
I will do more testing and report here.