More Shut-off Valve Problems...

[Riickk]

A gate valve is the wrong valve for a main shutoff.
It fails because the lowest edge of the triangular piece -that stops the flow by wedging into body of the valve- slowly gets worn away by water flowing past.
At least that's how it was explained to me. shrug

 

[gagecalman]

Sounds like you need to "bite the bullet". Open up that wall and replace that bad valve.

 

[pakle]

You guys are right. Main shut off and hot water shut off for 1 hr, the water still trickles at the lowest point. So the master bath tub faucet (on ground floor) and outside hose spigot still runs. When I shut those off, then the kitchen faucet starts to trickle. I think the main shut off needs to be replaced.

I'm also giving up on putting in the rest of the 11 shut-off valves with Dahl. They aren't actively leaking, the green deposits seem to be doing a good job, and I'm terrified of further damaging all these copper pipes with changing valves so many times. If/when they start leaking, I'll have them changed out with Dahl but will not be proactively doing it. See all the trouble that got me so far... Will be emailing Supply House / Dahl to see what's the shelf life for all these Dahl valves. I might want to return some of them.

Will be contacting a few recommended plumbers this week to change out the main shut off from gate valve to quarter turn. And have the plumber snip off end of the kitchen faucet cold water copper pipe that's deformed where the valve is still leaking (very slow, no water in the bucket overnight but wet).

Will be checking the valves periodically to see if they're leaking. Luckily, if they are, it seems to be very, very slow, like a drop a day. Bad decision 5 yrs ago to use the Home Depot Brasscraft valves so gotta deal with them now. Live & learn.

 

[pakle]

I typically solder all my stop valves on . This eliminates a few possibilities and remedies a few problems.

How long do soldered stops last vs compression for toilet & faucet shut-offs, if installed properly (big IF in my area)? Assuming it's Dahl or equivalent-quality valves. Secondary question: how much more for soldered, in parts & labor, are we talking double or more? Thanks.

 

[Twowaxhack]

How long do soldered stops last vs compression for toilet & faucet shut-offs, if installed properly (big IF in my area)? Assuming it's Dahl or equivalent-quality valves. Secondary question: how much more for soldered, in parts & labor, are we talking double or more? Thanks.

The connection to the pipe will last the life of the pipe. Water quality and grade of pipe determines that.

No real extra cost from me when I do it.

 

[pakle]

The connection to the pipe will last the life of the pipe. Water quality and grade of pipe determines that.

No real extra cost from me when I do it.

Thanks. How long do Dahl (soldered & compression) valves last? I have these Dahl compression valves:

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Dahl-611-33-31-1-2-Nom-Comp-x-3-8-OD-Comp-Angle-Supply-Stop-Lead-Free-Chrome-Plated

Are the best soldered stops also Dahl? If so, could you point me to a link. I have 1/2" copper. I'm hoping to get at least another 25 yrs out of my pipes before a re-pipe. So I'd like something that won't leak even if they haven't been turned in years, like my current valves. If I can find a competent plumber good with soldering... (do you know one in the Seattle area??). Thank you.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Thanks. How long do Dahl (soldered & compression) valves last? I have these Dahl compression valves:

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Dahl-611-33-31-1-2-Nom-Comp-x-3-8-OD-Comp-Angle-Supply-Stop-Lead-Free-Chrome-Plated

Are the best soldered stops also Dahl? If so, could you point me to a link. I have 1/2" copper. I'm hoping to get at least another 25 yrs out of my pipes before a re-pipe. So I'd like something that won't leak even if they haven't been turned in years, like my current valves. If I can find a competent plumber good with soldering... (do you know one in the Seattle area??). Thank you.

I use Brasscraft valves for the most part.

Multiturn type. I’m not saying I use the best valves made, I use what most people are willing to pay for so that’s what I stock.

I do stock some 1/4 turn ballvalve type but not as many.

I don’t know any plumbers in Seattle.

Here the brass body will virtually last forever. The inside guts can be replaced every 10 yrs to keep it working like new.

 

[pakle]

I use Brasscraft valves for the most part.

Multiturn type. I’m not saying I use the best valves made, I use what most people are willing to pay for so that’s what I stock.

I do stock some 1/4 turn ballvalve type but not as many.

I don’t know any plumbers in Seattle.

Here the brass body will virtually last forever. The inside guts can be replaced every 10 yrs to keep it working like new.

Interesting, so you prefer to solder the multi-turns because you can replace the insides every 10 yrs and you can't do that on 1/4 turns? I've always wanted to know what plumbers would put in their own homes so this is fascinating, thanks.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Interesting, so you prefer to solder the multi-turns because you can replace the insides every 10 yrs and you can't do that on 1/4 turns? I've always wanted to know what plumbers would put in their own homes so this is fascinating, thanks.

Mine last longer than 10 years. I replace the washer with a Wolverine brass faucets washer that’s way better quality and I lubricate the packing with silicone grease.

10yrs easy as they come out of the box. Takes literally 5 minutes to replace the guts when needed.

 

[CT18]

Get someone in there to press a new main shut off valve. It will last for many years and no hassle of trying to solder. Some cities in my area mandated that one of the valves at the meter had to be a gate. I do not think it is that way any longer. Put in a ball valve

 

[Twowaxhack]

Get someone in there to press a new main shut off valve. It will last for many years and no hassle of trying to solder. Some cities in my area mandated that one of the valves at the meter had to be a gate. I do not think it is that way any longer. Put in a ball valve

He already has. The plumber soldered in a ballvalve.

 

[pakle]

Mine last longer than 10 years. I replace the washer with a Wolverine brass faucets washer that’s way better quality and I lubricate the packing with silicone grease.

10yrs easy as they come out of the box. Takes literally 5 minutes to replace the guts when needed.

Too bad you can't replace insides on the 1/4 turns. I had multiturn prior and am not a fan, but you've certainly made a strong case for using them in this case.

Assuming I can find a competent plumber. The last 3 who were 'highly recommended' did not impress me at all. The one I hired for the main water shut off burned the wall as well as the brand-new valve handle. At least it doesn't leak, though the Dahl valve under the sink he replaced did. I don't trust him to solder 14 shut off valves in tight spaces/cabinets without burning a wall or worse. I'll try to crowdsource my area again for a better plumber who is experienced with soldering...

 

[pakle]

Mine last longer than 10 years. I replace the washer with a Wolverine brass faucets washer that’s way better quality and I lubricate the packing with silicone grease.

10yrs easy as they come out of the box. Takes literally 5 minutes to replace the guts when needed.

A few final questions on this topic (I promise!):
- Could you give a link to the soldered on Brasscraft multiturn you recommend for 1/2" copper pipe? Does it have a brass or plastic stem?
- I ask because the Brasscraft multiturn stem repair kit BCSR01 has a plastic stem. Do you use this kit or buy the parts separately?
- Do you have a link to the high quality Wolverine Brass neoprene washer? The repair kit shows 2 washers: one rubber, one white. The reviews say the rubber one breaks into pieces and clogs the faucet. Do you use the neoprene to replace both the rubber & the white washers?

Thanks for suggesting it's wise to take apart the muliturn and silicon grease up the parts/washers to put back in, before even soldering the thing on the first time. I will use these as interview questions for any plumber I may find who say they can do this job Thank you as always for your time.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Wolverine brass will not sell to the general public.

I only replace the washer on the end. Not the packing or friction ring.

I have so many valves that I rob the guts out of a new one and then throw the brass body into a scrap bin or into a bucket where I can I use the body later.

Some of the valve bodies are double outlet. I don’t use double outlet valves. So I robbed the guts.

 

[pakle]

Wolverine brass will not sell to the general public.

I only replace the washer on the end. Not the packing or friction ring.

I have so many valves that I rob the guts out of a new one and then throw the brass body into a scrap bin or into a bucket where I can I use the body later.

Some of the valve bodies are double outlet. I don’t use double outlet valves. So I robbed the guts.View attachment 31919

Do you happen to have a link to the soldered on Brasscraft multiturn you recommend for 1/2" copper pipe? Thank you!

 

[Twowaxhack]

Do you happen to have a link to the soldered on Brasscraft multiturn you recommend for 1/2" copper pipe? Thank you!

1/2 in. Nom Sweat x 3/8 in. O.D. Comp - BrassCraft

BrassCraft 1/2 in. Nominal Sweat Inlet x 3/8 in. OD Compression Outlet Multi-Turn Angle Valve controls water flow to household plumbing fixtures -

www.brasscraft.com

They also make this same valve in rough brass, a little cheaper.