yup.. I agree.. a bit (faded) orange also.
Installed Whirlpool Water Softener
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yup.. I agree.. a bit (faded) orange also.
First of all, no conditioning system(s) should be employed (IMO) without first having a professional water analysis performed and you then treat accordingly knowing the result(s). Another analysis needs to be performed to confirm conditioning and on an annual basis thereafter. You have no idea what is in the water no matter the taste and color.
The thing with cartridge filters is that they are sized for a (your) particular water condition. It may only require a cartridge or a specialty tank. As for a sediment filter, I could not do without one on my system. I may have to go to aeration.
Did you read the offered TECH ARTICLE on what comes out of a salt based water softener? Does the backwash truly remove all contaminants?
I am not a professional or sell system(s) but have been fighting filthy water for a few years and have self educated myself on the subject.
I personally would never (except in emergency) drink either municipal or unknown well water.
I know that the one link to how much sodium goes into your water from a water softener is bogus. The actual amount of sodium in an 8 oz glass of softened water is less than the sodium in a slice of bread.
New2Wellz
Active Member
I did not notice the link to the article in your last post. I just now read it. Thanks for that! More data is always better. There seem to be varying opinions as to how much sodium is actually carried into softened drinking water. Fortunately, my blood pressure is almost dangerously low (so I don't worry about sodium intake), and there are no other contaminates for me to worry about ingesting.
I'm sorry that you are struggling with such water quality issues. Is this a well issue or a municipal water problem? My rural county's water treatment plant has failed EPA certifications more than once, yet they continue to try to force more and more citizens onto their system. (I guess when you have the power to create laws, confiscate property and lock people up, you can have a dangerous product and crappy service yet still survive, huh)?
Conversely, the municipal water system I left in uber-rich Northern Virginia had so much chlorine in it you almost needed a gas mask when taking a shower...absolutely not healthy.
After 4 years of the cost and MAJOR inconvenience of using bottled water for all drinking purposes (and I drink a LOT of water), I finally installed this softener April 2014. I chose this unit because of positive reviews (yeh, I know) and its small footprint (I do not have any place to put a multi-tank unit in my small rambler). I looked at various technologies, but because of my kidney stones (which the hard water had severely aggravated) I needed to remove the minerals from my water, not merely prevent scaling.
I had a professional test done before installing a softener. It was an in-depth test subsidized by a joint venture between Virginia Cooperative Extension of Virginia Polytechnic Institute & University and my local county. They offer this to help well owners, and to gather water quality data across the state. I then took classes through that university's program to become a "Master Well Owner." Trust me, it sounds fancier than it really is, but 12 hours of intensive learning from professors and industry professionals taught me a lot about various well type construction & maintenance in the various geographies of Virginia (Coastal Plain/Piedmont/Mountain). And I have never been on well water before, so needed the education.
Here are my test results:
Iron (mg/1) 0.039
Manganese (mg/1) 0.05
Hardness (mg/1) 224.9 [this was the only out-of-range item]
Sulfate (mg/1) 49.5
Chloride (mg/1) 15.3
Fluoride (mg/1) 0.23
Total Dissolved Solids (mg/1) 348.5
pH 7.3
Copper (mg/1) 0.005
Sodium (mg/1) 18.2
Nitrate-N (mg/1) 0.1g
Total Coliform Bacteria ABSENT
E. Coli Bacteria ABSENT
When I first moved in I installed the sediment filter to keep the mica out of my plumbing fixtures. I kept the filter in my softener installation because I was concerned about the mica getting into the softener's mesh filter and venturi. Plus I already had it on hand, and cartridges are not that expensive. As soon as I put in a fresh filter and turn the water back on, I immediately see the flakes of mica begin to cling to the filter, it's that concentrated. That's why I have the sediment filter in a clear canister...I can see when I need to change it.
Because I had some residual issues of occasional sulpher smell if I went out of town for a few days (the house had been vacant for 5 years), and because I figured it could not hurt, I installed the charcoal filter. THat was my sole reason. 5 years of me living in the home (and regularly running the water), the residual sulpher issue has gone away. I have read elsewhere that these small charcoal cartridges are essentially "used up" within a day or two. I have no way of measuring that, and change it per manufacturer's recommendation.
You're right about the need to get my water re-tested. I had it tested for coliforms when I first purchased the house and then the high-end test about a year later. It's been 4 years since my last test. Most labs tell you to take the sample from a non-softened/non-filtered source. What's your opinion of that? It almost sounds like two tests are ideal: one test for my source water, and another test for my treated water to see how well the hardness is being treated (although I can tell you that my coffee filter has stayed unscaled for nearly a year now, and my kidney stones went away).
Here are my test results: Iron (mg/1) 0.039 Manganese (mg/1) 0.05 Hardness (mg/1) 224.9 [this was the only out-of-range item said:
how much did you pay for that test?
I have only been able to test my water for pesticides and such with the city health department which cost $25
Actually, you have enough results there to begin.
-How to Understand Water Test Results for Household Wells-
The above link will give you an idea on how to read your test results. GOOGLE for even more info.
Just re-read your entire post..
Testing is done on raw water to see exactly what is coming in (and this can change from season to season). And you are correct doing an after treatment test to verify the conditioning system is functioning properly (and this post test should be done on an annual basis).
I live right above you outside of Martinsburg, WV. So we have basically the same water conditions because of the rock formation(s) in the valley (along with radon).
My biggest problem(s) are calcium and manganese. The manganese alone can plug my sediment filter within a month's time...
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I have never known anybody that actually used it. I do know that it's way more expensive than salt and I also know that it isn't as efficient as salt, so you have to buy it more often.
When you see and ad for a softener that doesn't use salt, they are either going to tell you (after the fact) that you use Potassium Chloride instead or they are trying to sell you a magnetic softener which does not work at all.
Be especially careful of WATER CONDITIONERS purported to lessen hardness. They may help in very low hardness conditions but are soon overwhelmed with heavy conditions.
Ask me how I know...
Just thought I would bring this up.
I want to know.
New2Wellz
Active Member
I honestly do not recall...it was several years ago. And I only paid a fraction of the cost.
The test was through UVA's own lab, and was highly subsidized by that university and by my county (or maybe by the state).
As I said, these tests give governments lots of data points for water quality throughout Virginia under the Household Water Quality Program.
You might see if your state university has a cooperative extension in or near your county, and ask if they have such a program. Personally, my inner patriot tells me to not pay the city to test the quality of the city's water and expect an objective analysis.
Thanks.. I am waiting for a response from UF (University of Florida).. No response from them yet.
New2Wellz
Active Member
I live right above you outside of Martinsburg, WV. So we have basically the same water conditions because of the rock formation(s) in the valley (along with radon).
My biggest problem(s) are calcium and manganese. The manganese alone can plug my sediment filter within a month's time...
When the test results were ready for the participants in the county's program, we were given the opportunity to pick them up in person and attend a presentation of the test results for the entire group of roughly 50 participants. About 20 of us chose to do so.
My hardness of 225 was a major out-layer...everyone else's were well within acceptable levels. A few folks had over-the-limit measurements in other areas, mostly iron as I recall. One had a bacterial issue, which is a major health and cost issue assuming the sample was properly collected. Basically, results for these 50 people--in the same county--were all over the place.
I think that the hydrogeology in our areas (VA and West VA) is so diverse that (to state the obvious) the majority of mineral issues are luck of the draw in where the well was drilled relative to the geology that surrounds our specific water source. I go to a plumbing supply house that is 20 miles away from my home, and have to remind the sales guy that I do not live near there, because that part of the county has significant iron and copper issues (it used to be a big mining community) and has completely different mineral content than where I live.
In my Master Well Owner's class, I learned of the underlying hydrogeology in this part of the country. There are horizontal strata of rock called "aquitards." Aquitards my go for miles without a break for water to follow. So when a well is drilled, it likely goes through this layer of rock and then down into the water source.
This layer of rock [generally] blocks each property's groundwater from perking straight down into that property's water source...groundwater hits the aquitard and runs along the top of it until there is a break, where the water then runs off into another underground collection area (which may or may not currently be tapped into by a well).
So the quality of my water is less dependent upon what I do on my property (excepting what I might do immediately near the well casing), and is more dependent upon what someone else does (maybe miles away) that runs along their underlying aquitard, then runs down and collects in my water source. Conversely, what I do my my property mostly effects whoever drills a well (maybe miles away) at a break "downstream" of the aquitard underneath my land.
I have no idea whether or not this type of hydrogeology is representative of the majority of non-coastal America (I know that tidewater areas ARE unique). Here is a diagram of the Maquoketa aquitard in Wisconsin that I just found, if you want to see what I'm talking about. This Wiki article talks about this aquitard (shale layer), which exists in Missouri, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, and Indiana...obviously not a localized feature.
Sorry for the tangent, but understanding what happens out of sight helps understand the effects that we CAN see. And it's important to realize how the actions of others may damage our well water quality. Plus it's fascinating.
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Very educational and appreciated. This explains why two neighbors can have completely different water.
225 mg/l is totally average hardness. When you change the mg/l to hardness by dividing it by 17.1 your get 13 grains of hardness which is average and not at all bad.
New2Wellz
Active Member
Yeh, I discovered that later when making the conversion to set up the softener, which remediates up to 33 grains. And discovering this totally surprised me.
First, my hardness was WAY out of range with where the rest of the 50 samples were. I'm thinking that the average was around 180. Not knowing better, that difference initially had me thinking that I had unusually hard water, when the truth is that the wells in this part of the state must have naturally soft water.
And as I said, the hardness was sufficient to bring my kidney stones roaring back after 2 decades of silence, and I would have to descale my coffee maker every couple of weeks to keep it working. When I pushed cleaning the coffee maker longer than that, I ruined a very nice Cusinart, for which I am unable to find even basic repair parts...but that's a separate rant and a wound that shall never heal.
So if all that is what happens at the low end of the range, what does REALLY hard water look like? Do you need an ice pick to get it out of the faucet? Would you set off alarms during airport screenings from ingesting it?
New2Wellz
Active Member
It also explains how you can get different quality wells that are drilled on the same property (not that nature cares about where Man chooses to draw his artificial lines of ownership demarcation).
When people replace depleted wells (done at least once on my property before I purchased it), sometimes they trade up and sometimes they trade down.
Calcium and magnesium are both non magnetic; so I think you will be safe in the airport.
I think you will find that it's the depth of the well much more than where the well is drilled. I once had three wells on my property. One was surface water full of tanin and iron at 20' deep. The second was at 212'. It was loaded with hardness. 44 grains or 752 mg/l. The third was 170'. Had very little iron, 15 grains hard and no sulphur. All on less than one acre of property.
Hardness if white for the most part. You will see it on your glass shower doors mostly along with the soap film.
I think you will find that it's the depth of the well much more than where the well is drilled. I once had three wells on my property. One was surface water full of tanin and iron at 20' deep. The second was at 212'. It was loaded with hardness. 44 grains or 752 mg/l. The third was 170'. Had very little iron, 15 grains hard and no sulphur. All on less than one acre of property.
Hardness if white for the most part. You will see it on your glass shower doors mostly along with the soap film.
New2Wellz
Active Member
Interesting stuff. I've heard of drilling at different depths to get proper yield/flow, but didn't think about the quality varying so much. On acre seems like a pretty small area to have 3 wells on. Were they all in use or were they separate attempts at the same time to get something satisfactory?
Being in Florida, I would have thought that most of your water would be in artesian or bored wells (like your 20' deep one)...I believe that coastal communities in Virginia rely mostly on groundwater. I guess you can have a drilled well in any geology, but I forget more than I remember from that well owner's class.
I have no idea how deep my existing well is, or how deep the older wells on my property were. I'm on over 50 acres, and my house was built in the 1970s. There is at least one older foundation on the property that I have found. My current well was drilled maybe 20 years ago. I went down to the county to gather info on it and all of the paperwork had the same note on it: "Needs driller's report." My tax dollars at work, huh? Although I DO prefer a government that doesn't hover over you.
Wow, I'm jealous already. 50 acres and here I am with only 5.5.
The original well at that house was there when I moved in. It was a 2" at about 20'. It was loaded with Tanin and iron but it was soft. Surface water in Florida doesn't pick up any hardness from the shell based sand we have here, so it's totally soft. The water color was like tea from the tanin. I drilled a second well, a 4" that went 212' (iirc) and was hard as a brick. 44 grains hard. I had to go with a very large softener to get through one day's worth of soft water then backwash it every night. It had bad sulfur also but no iron. I then moved about 200' away and drilled another 4" well to 170+/_ and it was normal hardness, very little iron and no sulfur. The drilling was totally different than the second well also. The first 4" had about 160' of casing where the third well only had 17 feet. I hit rock there and couldn't drive any more.
The original well at that house was there when I moved in. It was a 2" at about 20'. It was loaded with Tanin and iron but it was soft. Surface water in Florida doesn't pick up any hardness from the shell based sand we have here, so it's totally soft. The water color was like tea from the tanin. I drilled a second well, a 4" that went 212' (iirc) and was hard as a brick. 44 grains hard. I had to go with a very large softener to get through one day's worth of soft water then backwash it every night. It had bad sulfur also but no iron. I then moved about 200' away and drilled another 4" well to 170+/_ and it was normal hardness, very little iron and no sulfur. The drilling was totally different than the second well also. The first 4" had about 160' of casing where the third well only had 17 feet. I hit rock there and couldn't drive any more.
