How to get the well pump connector lose

[Steven99]

Hello guys,

So I have a 24-volt submersible well pump that seems dead. I have had this house for 20 years, so the pump is way older than that. The connection part about 8 feet down the well pipe is very rusty; it took a great deal of effort just to remove what seems like debris from the top of this "connector," and even more challenging was getting the one-inch black pipe to thread. After banging the T part of my hand made removal tool to get the connector to lose, all I was able to accomplish after ten minutes was to get my pipe disconnected. The threads are OK, but covered on green rust,, and only about 1/4 inch threaded, which will explain why it came out loose. I was able to reconnect my "pulling pipe" again with no problem, but it started to get dark, so I decided to try again tomorrow. As far as I know, green rust is from brass connectors, but to me, that does not make much sense because brass is a soft metal, so I think it needs to be a better way to just keep banging this thing hoping it gets lost. Any tricks that I am missing? Is there a better material to use for my pulling tool instead of black pipe? Is there a way to apply lubricant to that connector piece? Your help is greatly appreciated because not having water is really a no-fun situation to be in right before the holidays.

Steven

 

[Steven99]

So I got my one inch connected again but this time I pt some lubricant to help get in connected to the pitless part, and that worked. We started lifting the black iron pipe when as we were lifting, the connector the the pitless connector broke off, and we noticed how the electrical wire was rapidly been pulled. The well seems to be about 80 feet deep, so I thought I cold pull the pump by the 3 #10 wires, but I cannot move it an inch. How can that pump be so heavy? using flashlight Ii can see the disconnected black PVC pipe about 25 feet below. This looks pretty grim right now, any suggestions?

 

[wpns]

The pipe will lift it straight up, the wires will lift it up at an angle, so it'll get wedged. Call a well expert, they may be able to grab the pipe and lift it out properly.

 

[Valveman]

Probably stuck in the mud when it fell. I would pull on the wires until it comes out or the wire breaks off. Once the wire is out of the way make a loop on the end of a piece of strong nylon rope and slip it over the pipe 25' down. You can use a piece of PVC pipe to tape the loop to and place the loop where you need it. With a strong nylon rope attached you should be able to pull it out.

 

[Steven99]

Thank you for your advice Valveman! I got it out after a lot of effort. So I have a different question. I currently have a Goulds 7EH10412 which tells me that I have a 7GPM, EH pump series, 1HP, 4 inch casing, 1 phase 3 wire, 230V pump. My well is 505 feet deep and my static water level is 38 ft.

My first question is if I have to replace my old pump with another 7GPM or can I have the choice to choose a 10GPM?
Second, I am seeing some Goulds pumps that are 240V in one phase but are only 2 wires. Do that mean that both wires are hot? How can this pump work with no neutral wire? Can I use this type of pump?

Thank you!

 

[Valveman]

Not a lot of difference. It all depends on how deep the water level draws down. The 7GS will work and still build pressure when the water level drops to about 400'. The 10GS will only be able to build 50 PSI if the water level stays above 350'. With a static of 38' drawing down 300' would be utilizing about 450 gallons of water stored in the well above 350'. If you never use more than 450 gallons at any one time, the 10GS will work fine.

2 wire motors have a third ground wire and do not need a control box. 3 wire motors have a fourth wire for a ground and require the capacitor start box.

 

[Steven99]

Thanks for your reply! So I ordered the 7CS1422C, and I found the manual online for the 7GS units (is it safe to assume that both units should pretty much the same, and so installation should be the same?).

In the manual it says::
"Two-Wire Single Phase Motor Connect the black motor leads to the Load terminals on the pressure switch and the green or bare ground wire to the green ground screw. CentriPro 2-wire motors will not work with Franklin Electric PumpTec. Use a PumpSaver."

So, do I really need to get a PumpSaver 111?

Manual also says that I should use a one way valve every 200 Ft. My pump had on about 1/2 way, so I guess that should work?

Since we are a family of six and water pressure was not great, I am also considering getting a water storage tank as a way to make it easier for the pump, and for us to perhaps gain some water pressure. Any experience with this?


Thank you in advance for your answers,

Steve

 

[Twowaxhack]

Thanks for your reply! So I ordered the 7CS1422C, and I found the manual online for the 7GS units (is it safe to assume that both units should pretty much the same, and so installation should be the same?).

In the manual it says::
"Two-Wire Single Phase Motor Connect the black motor leads to the Load terminals on the pressure switch and the green or bare ground wire to the green ground screw. CentriPro 2-wire motors will not work with Franklin Electric PumpTec. Use a PumpSaver."

So, do I really need to get a PumpSaver 111?

Manual also says that I should use a one way valve every 200 Ft. My pump had on about 1/2 way, so I guess that should work?

Since we are a family of six and water pressure was not great, I am also considering getting a water storage tank as a way to make it easier for the pump, and for us to perhaps gain some water pressure. Any experience with this?


Thank you in advance for your answers,

Steve

Let us know how much all that costs…..

Thanks !

 

[Valveman]

water pressure was not great, I am also considering getting a water storage tank as a way to make it easier for the pump,

Considering this new information, I would have suggested doing this differently. First the CS I think is the Stainless, crimped on pump ends. I have heard of many problems with the crimped ends not holding up. This is fairly new and new things are not usually good for the consumer. The GS is the old standard threaded brass end bells which is what Goulds reputation was built on. Second the 10GS would have been better than the 7GS if you want something easy on the pump and better pressure. Working with a Cycle Stop Valve the pump would last a long time, and the model CSV1A could hold a strong constant 60 PSI to the house. This is so strong many people joke that they no longer even need soap.

The 10GS GPM series pump would have only had 180 PSI back pressure from the CSV and would work up to about 12 GPM. The 7GS pump will also work with the CSV. However, it will develop 212 PSI back pressure, and you would need to make sure the pipe prior to the CSV is rated for that much. But I worry about the crimped ends on the CS pump. Even without the CSV there will be lots of back pressure if the water level gets deep.

Might be best to use the CS pump with a cistern and a booster pump for the house, as that way takes a lot of pressure off the crimped ends. With a cistern you can also use a Cycle Stop Valve with the booster pump and have as strong of pressure as you want in the house. Just make sure the booster pump can build as much pressure as you want. You might want to use a multi-stage booster or even a submersible as they build more pressure than a jet pump.

 

[Steven99]

This is great information. Thank you for sharing. I searched everywhere to know about the differences between CS and GS and found nothing out there. So since getting the pump out took me a while, that means no water at our home, and well... .my family are ready for war if I do not resolve this soon. I was strongly told not go to a 10GPM pump because the paperwork from the original installation of the well indicated that the well design was for 5GPM, and instead of risking damaging the well by using a 10GPM pump, to think about a water storage tank.

Now, my first priority is to get water back at my house as soon as I possible, which will mean for the moment to keep the water storage tank aside for later.

So my big burning questions:

1) do I really need to get a PumpSaver 111 to install this new pump?
2) My current pressure tank is 36 gallons. Would it help at all to increase its size?
3) For the installation without the water storage tank, would the CSV1A be installed right before the pressure tank?
4) Once I am ready for the water storage tank, do I have no move the CSV1A?

Lastly, I found this 275 gallon storage tanks. Would one would be sufficient?

Again, thank you so much for your help!

Steven

 

[wpns]

A family of six would use around 600 gallons per day, I don’t think 275 gallons is nearly enough

 

[Twowaxhack]

A family of six would use around 600 gallons per day, I don’t think 275 gallons is nearly enough

That’s around 18,000 gallons a month.

I hope he has one hell of a septic system or is on city sewer.

 

[Steven99]

Hey guys,

So I was just on the phone with a tech support guy from R. C. Worst CO and asked him if I really needed this PumpSaver, and he said no since that device is mostly used in case of low water levels on a well, which I do not think is my case because otherwise my last pump would have never lasted 34 years. So I think I got my answer for my first question, unless someone here has a different opinion (please let me know).

So I guess my last burning questions are:

1) My current pressure tank is 36 gallons. Would it help at all to increase its size?
2) For the installation without the water storage tank, would the CSV1A be installed right before the pressure tank?
3) Once I am ready for the water storage tank, later down the road, do I have no move the CSV1A to a different location near the new water storage tank?

Thank you

 

[Valveman]

A 36 gallon size pressure tank only holds 8 gallons of water. Without a CSV it would be best to have 3-4 of those size tanks. With a CSV that tank is 2-3 times larger than needed, but will work fine.

The CSV1A goes before the pressure tank/pressure switch on whichever pump is supplying water to the house. You can use it and the 36 gallon tank directly on the well for now, and move them to the booster pump after adding a storage tank.

 

[Valveman]

OR, you can set it up to supply the house directly from the well or from the storage tank if you want some redundancy.