Hot Water Recirculation Pump Recommendations

Discussion in 'Water Heaters and Softeners' started by 123champ, Aug 27, 2011.

  1. Aug 27, 2011 #1

    123champ

    123champ

    123champ

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    I have an 'Armstrong Astro Express' hot water circulation pump, which has stopped working after 3 1/2 years of service - so I am looking for a replcement.

    I came across a variety of brands online; so am looking for recommendations.
    Does any of the following outshine the rest?

    1. Armstrong Astro Express (The brand which I was quite happy with, but which died out rather prematurely in my opinion)
    2. Watts Premier (Cheapest one available)
    3. Grundfos
    4. Any other?

    Another question -- should I also replace the check valve between the water heater and the pump?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Aug 27, 2011 #2

    Mr_David

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    Grundfos
    May even bolt into the same flanges if yours has flanges.

    Just don't get one any bigger than you need to move the water.
    If you move the water to fast it will cause internal errosion in a copper system
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  3. Aug 27, 2011 #3

    havasu

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    ^ I agree with this!

    grundfos.jpg
     
  4. Aug 27, 2011 #4

    Fansplumbing

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    Wow! I've never seen or installed a Grundfos that isn't hard wired. ^ Pretty cool to have a plug in.
     
  5. Aug 27, 2011 #5

    speedbump

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    speedbump

    Wells & pumps; not a... Professional

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    Have you ever tried running the return pipe to the bottom of the heater and let gravity circulate it? That's how a plumber friend and me did a house I built many years ago. It worked great and no pump!
     
  6. Aug 27, 2011 #6

    123champ

    123champ

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    Thank you all. I guess Grundfos it is!

    Speedbump -- I haven't tried running the return pipe to the bottom - will have to ask the plumber if he could do it. I am not handy enough to figure it out myself :-(

    Any thoughts on my other question - does the check valve need to be replaced?

    Thanks!
     
  7. Aug 27, 2011 #7

    speedbump

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    Wells & pumps; not a... Professional

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    It's just a matter of finishing the loop from the top of the heater to the bottom fitting where the drain valve is. As the water moves through the pipes, it cools enough to make the warmer water in the heater to go up to make room for the cooler water at the bottom. It just self circulates. Of coarse you would want to insulate the pipes very well. I didn't think to do that the first month and my electric bill was half the price of our National Debt.
     
  8. Aug 27, 2011 #8

    havasu

    havasu

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    I just did a small job and saw this same set up, but that was where the Grundfos was installed. Made for a clean installation and works perfectly.
     
  9. Aug 27, 2011 #9

    speedbump

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    Wells & pumps; not a... Professional

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    Tey turning off the pump and see if it still works.

    Seems like we put a check valve at the far end of the hot water run. A flapper check valve.
     
  10. Aug 27, 2011 #10

    Mr_David

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    Gravity method doesn't always work. That's a hit and miss method. I've seen systems where the pump has failed and the return was still hot. I 've seen more systems where the water was turned off and the return wasn't flushed. The return got air locked and the pump would not move the water.
    Tips:
    It's always better to install the pump below the drain cock connection to the heater. any air trapped in line will float up into the heater.
    I ussually intall a brass nipple with a IPS ball into the drain cock hole of the heater. This way you can service the pump and flush the return line easier.
    I then use a brass tee to connect return line and reinstall the drain cock.

    The pump that Havasu posted is for a system that does not have a designated return line and connects directly to the hot oulet nipple on top of the heater.
     
  11. Aug 27, 2011 #11

    havasu

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    Exactly. Actually, I purchased it off the shelf at my local Costco warehouse and used it before installing the new tankless water heater. It sure worked great though.
     
  12. Sep 12, 2011 #12

    USMC

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    Hot water circulating pump we had lasted 1 month past its warranty and wasn't about to purchase the same brand after such a short life. Watts and Grundfos are different only in color and this time around I wanted something that would last and not nickel and dime me with replace comfort valves. We chose a Redytemp TL4000 hot water circulating pump for a number of reasons, mostly for the gas savings. On their site they succeeded in explaining why we couldn't get cold water with our past system. I thought loosing your cold water was just the nature of the beast when the cold water line is used with a hot water circulating pump. Then again, I should've expected it with multiple open comfort valves installed.

    I know many will say that needing an outlet under the sink is a deal breaker. But not working the pi#@ out of my water heater and having my cold water back made it worth it. I simply dropped wires down from the existing outlet above the back splash. We use our system in both the pushbutton and timer modes. Our gas bill has gone down $15 dollars per month and our cold water is back. More importantly the wife likes it a lot more than our previous system and that's the rest of the story. (little Paul Harvey humor).
     
  13. Jan 27, 2012 #13

    ryoo1257

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    mark it here
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  14. Mar 27, 2012 #14

    Mark_Franklin

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    WaterQuick Pro II
     
  15. Mar 27, 2012 #15

    jwwing

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    Our last two houses have had Grundhos pumps, work great. The first house had the pump run full time, so I installed a timer and compared the savings - it was pretty close to astronomical. On the last house, I just went ahead and put a cheapy timer on it right away. Still working after 6 years. I run the pump from 5 am to 11 am then from 5 pm to 11 pm, so about half-time.
     
  16. Mar 29, 2012 #16

    Mark_Franklin

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    The Grundfos is a nice system but even though it saves water it increases your energy costs. A demand style system like WaterQuick Pro II only works when there is a demand for hot water. Installation is exactly like the Grundfos system but without the long term energy costs.That probably isn't a concern where you are at, but people I have worked with in San Diego don't like the cost of running the Grundfos or any system on a timer.
     
  17. Apr 7, 2012 #17

    jwwing

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    Hmmm - wish my builder had suggested this type of system to me. I think it still doesn't solve the hot water problem however. You still have to wait for it to feed back and replace the water in the pipe. The recirculating water system gives you hot water right away. The WaterQuick Pro has to have a delay - but it does look good. If the pump starts running when the faucet is opened, it would have to stop when the temperature at the faucet starts to rise or the cold water side will get hot - the net is that the pump has to have a pretty high flow rate to do that in a reasonable length of time - seems like it would be noisy.
     
  18. Apr 7, 2012 #18

    johnjh2o

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    For one I can't see how that system would be any more effective then turning the water on. There is no way that pump can move the water any faster then opening a faucet. The idea of a re-circulating system is to have the hot water at the faucet before the faucet is turned on.

    John
     
  19. Apr 7, 2012 #19

    Mark_Franklin

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    Hot water circulation lines were designed to provide hot water immediately at a faucet but studies have shown that the convenience of having hot water immediately may save water but it is more than offset by the cost of keeping the line hot even when no one is using hot water.

    The WaterQuick Pro II moves the water considerable faster than just turning on a faucet and is whisper quiet. The Bridge Valve that connects the hot and cold lines under the furthest sink closes when the water reaches 95 degrees so hot water does not go into the cold line.

    Water is conserved, no energy is wasted and hot water is available in about 10 seconds.
     
  20. Apr 7, 2012 #20

    johnjh2o

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    Mark, I'm sorry but there are some points I disagree with. There is added cost but the pump can not move the water faster then the pressure from the water system. These pumps have a 1/16 to 1/8 horse power motor and they can not develop any pressure. All they a capable of is to create a slight slight difference in pressure between the inlet and outlet side of the pump. They are not really pumps they are calculators. If you put the suction end in a bucket of water and turned it on you would see how little water it moves.

    John
     

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