Help with mystery leak coming from bottom of dishwasher drain pump

[Erich]

Hello everyone, really hoping someone here can help.

I have a GE dishwasher that is leaking underneath the unit from the pump (see the 2nd attached photo where the white piece meets the black cylinder). After consulting with my plumber and my appliance tech, we all concluded that it must a faulty pump, so the dishwasher was replaced with a new GE dishwasher - essentially the same model. However, the problem is still occurring - leaking from under the pump.

The dishwasher uses a high loop.

We also have a Kinetico reverse osmosis water filtration system. The thin discharge tube from the Kinetico meets the larger discharge tube from the dishwasher in a splitter. See 1st attached photo.

Here are my observations:

1) The dishwasher pump doesn't seem to leak when the dishwasher is running. The pump does its job and water is discharged normally.
2) The dishwasher pump doesn't seem to leak when off WHEN just the "normal amount" of standing water is present in the bottom of dishwasher after use.
3) However, it SEEMS as though the leaking occurs when the reverse osmosis system is processing (and therefore discharging), but only when is there is already the "normal amount" of standing water in the bottom of the dishwasher. As if the dishwasher can handle a "normal amount" of standing water, but if additional water is added it's more than the dishwasher can handle and the leaking from the pump begins. Again, the dishwasher is NOT running when this scenario occurs.

So here are my questions:

1) Is it possible that the Kinetico discharge could override the high loop and feed back into the dishwasher through the dishwasher discharge tube?
2) Is it possible for a dishwasher to NOT leak with SOME standing water but CAN leak with MORE than the standard amount of standing water?

Any other ideas about what the issue might be?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

Sounds like the mating piece is messed up. Or the install. Pictures don’t do enough justice. Can you take one while it’s leaking? Or put your finger on it? Only reason for same leak is you have the same leak. Misdiagnosed leak?

 

[Erich]

So yes, after now replacing the original dishwasher with a brand new one 5 days ago and seeing the same problem, I think it's safe to say that the pump itself is not causing the leak, but is simply where the leak is occurring.

So let me back up here. How much standing water is "normal" to see in bottom of dishwasher when not being run? The GE manual says a "small amount of clean water" is normal.

I have maybe an inch or so sometimes of standing water (clean), does that seem normal?

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

No standing water should be visible when cycle is done. basin should be dry within a few hours.

 

[Erich]

OK, thank you.

So if there IS significant standing water, it either has to be coming from the hot water inlet or the drain hose, correct?

We are using a high loop for drain hose. Is there a scenario where water can override the high loop (even when set up correctly) and enter the dishwasher?

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

Let’s also try to disconnect the reverse osmosis from the equation. I never seen one wyed in like that. The osmosis discharge has some pressure behind it. I have always used what I call a osmosis discharge connection. I see if I can locate one for picture. And then tap factory drain straight into a slip joint DW tee. I can almost imagine a scenario where pressured water could escape the seal on check valve under dishwasher. The dishwasher drain is only able to accommodate 6-7 psi. Just mainly flow direction. So lemme find that piece real quick

Watts Premier 164014 DLA-12 Drain Line Plumbing Adapter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009XDMEMM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Erich]

OK, so I'm still trying to determine the source of water entering the dishwasher.

First, I drained all of the excess water from the dishwasher by starting a cycle and immediately canceling it - which prompts the pump to drain all the water.

I then washed several dishes by hand, just to see if water from doing that was flowing into dishwasher. There was no water in the dishwasher, so that does not seem to be the problem.

I then closed dishwasher door and waited about an hour or so.

After that hour, I opened the door and found about an inch of standing water in the dishwasher.

So where could that water be coming from?

I'm wondering if the reverse osmosis system is perpetually running and discharge water is flowing into dishwasher. It's not making that hissing noise it does right after you use it, but I do hear some droplets of water coming from inside one of the pipes - I can't tell which one.

Maybe something is broken inside the unit causing it to run? The unit is only 4 months old, I just had it installed recently.

I just can't figure out where else the water would be coming from.

 

[Rickyman]

You could have a blockage or partial blockage in between the tee and the disposal. Make sure the knockout was punched out or disconnect the tee and check with a screwdriver to make sure disposal and outlet of the tee is clear

 

[Erich]

OK, I used my drain stick and went all the way through into the dishwasher discharge tube, I did not feel anything and nothing came out with it, so it appears it's not blocked.

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

OK, so I'm still trying to determine the source of water entering the dishwasher.

First, I drained all of the excess water from the dishwasher by starting a cycle and immediately canceling it - which prompts the pump to drain all the water.

I then washed several dishes by hand, just to see if water from doing that was flowing into dishwasher. There was no water in the dishwasher, so that does not seem to be the problem.

I then closed dishwasher door and waited about an hour or so.

After that hour, I opened the door and found about an inch of standing water in the dishwasher.

So where could that water be coming from?

I'm wondering if the reverse osmosis system is perpetually running and discharge water is flowing into dishwasher. It's not making that hissing noise it does right after you use it, but I do hear some droplets of water coming from inside one of the pipes - I can't tell which one.

Maybe something is broken inside the unit causing it to run? The unit is only 4 months old, I just had it installed recently.

I just can't figure out where else the water would be coming from.

I would try to seperate osmosis discharge and dishwasher drain. So that they can go into drain seperate.

 

[CT18]

Why not tie the RO into one of the tailpieces on the sink strainers. I have never seen one tied into the dishwasher discharge before, apparently for good reason

 

[TomFOhio]

Is that a new or old garbage disposal. When James said to check the drain did you take off the rubber fitting on the disposal
and make sure it is open going into the disposal???

 

[Erich]

The disposal is only about a year old, so pretty new.

Do you mean the gasket? I removed the gasket and water is definitely flowing into the drain from the dishwasher discharge tube when it pumps initially during a new cycle.

Here is one more observation I made. No problems are happening if there is no standing water in the dishwasher (I have to do this manually by starting and canceling a cycle which pumps the excess water out). However, if there is some standing water, things start to go bad. It's almost as if some standing water allows MORE water to flow into the dishwasher (I'm assuming from the discharge tube?).

Does that make sense? Does some standing water negate the pressure of the high loop and allow more water to enter?

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

Your pics labeled plumb 1.jpg. That fitting. Remove it. That’s the wye I spoke of that no one has ever seen. Turn off r o system at valve. Repeat your tests on dishwasher.pic plumb 3. Shows this valve. Blue plastic tucked right behind r o system. That should be the valve to isolate system. Check your fill spout to make sure it’s off.