Has my plumber breached our contract?

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Chi42

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I live with my mother in a single-family home in a suburb of Chicago, Illinois. We both own the house. We have a Joint Tenancy with Right of Survivorship.

Recently, we signed a contract with a plumber for the replacement of our home's sewer pipe. The contract has three signtaures: my signature, my mother's signature, and the plumber's signature.

The following is the text of the contract:



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Contractor is to supply all labor and material to complete the following:

Contractor located several sewer separations and will replace sewer pipe from city property to inside residence and connect to a good section of pipe. Contractor will also install a 6” clean-out for easy rodding access. Contractor will make all appropriate connections to restore house to proper working order. Contractor will use material to be in compliance with city codes. Anything unforeseen will be an additional cost. Contractor is not responsible for any damage caused to floors, walls, or landscaping.

The price of the above procedure is $13250.00. A deposit of $4500 will be needed to start work, $4300 will be due half way through the job, and the remaining amount will be due after inspection. There will be a lifetime guarantee on all labor.

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We gave the plumber $4500. He and a subordinate plumber came to the home a few times and did some digging in our crawl space.

My mother took issue with the haphazard hours these plumbers were working. They were working only a few hours a day, and not every day. They seemed to be juggling us and other clients.

One day, my mother called the plumber in charge (whose signature is on the contract). My mother made this call without my approval. I was asleep when she made the call. She said to him that, if he was going to have these haphazard hours, then she didn't want him to come at all. He interpreted that statement to mean that she had fired him. So, he said that he was coming to the house to pick up his tools.

My mother woke me up and told me what had happened. I called him, and he said that he had been fired and that he was picking up his tools and leaving the project. I told him that *I* still wanted him on the job. Nevertheless, he came to the house, picked up his tools, and left the project.



I believe that he is in breach of contract. There is no provision in the contract that says that, if my mother and I disagree about firing him, then he can simply walk away from the contract.

Right now, the crawl space has been dug up to a huge extent, but that's only a fraction of the work that has to be done. The plumber has $4500 of our money. However, the work done by these plumbers, in my view, is worth far less than $4500.

I want to sue for breach of contract, for the amount of ($4500 - the value of the digging already done). Has the plumber in charge breached the contract?

Thanks for any information.
 
you need a lawyer. you can do a couple of things
the bst way to get him to respond, go on facebook, to his company page and tell your story

DO NOT LIE or embelish.

second, hire a lawyer to write a letter threatening lawsuit, round $200.00 but worth it

was there a time clause ? ALWAYS add a time clause
 
you need a lawyer. you can do a couple of things
the bst way to get him to respond, go on facebook, to his company page and tell your story

DO NOT LIE or embelish.

second, hire a lawyer to write a letter threatening lawsuit, round $200.00 but worth it

was there a time clause ? ALWAYS add a time clause

We spoke to an attorney. He told us that the first thing we should do, is to send to the plumber a letter stating that, if the plumber does not resume the project by a certain deadline, then the plumber will be in breach of contract, and we will pursue appropriate legal action. If the plumber ignores us for a week, then we can proceed to 1) hire a new plumber and 2) sue the first plumber for breach of contract. We sent the letter (certified mail, return receipt requested) on Friday (3/24/17), and the letter should have arrived today (3/27/17).

As for the time clause, how would I add the clause? The clause should impose penalties if the project goes beyond the deadline. What kind of penalties can be imposed?
 
I bet that letter just cost you a $1,000 or more.

The attorney advised me to send that letter, in a free, informal conversation. I have not yet officially hired that attorney.
 
installing a sewer is a 1 day job, 2 days if you guys are slow

just wright in the contract
Time is of the essence, work will begin on 00/02/17 and end no later than 00/03/17
A $500.00 a day penalty will be accessed starting on 00/04/17 at 10 am.

have all parties sign and date the addition to the contact, with copies
 
You guys should have worked out a time line. Sounds like some crawl space digging was involved so that may have added to the completion time frame.
 
Digging in a crawl space is no fun. Normally you put your lowest skilled guy on it. Most of the time your on your belly with no more than an inch of space above your back digging a hole with an EZ tool. Until that is dug the major work cannot begin. One thing to consider... how many people can you fit in a crawl space and be productive working in the same place. As a company you don't want guys wasting your time. Man hours add up. Let's look on the low side. You have two guys in a crawl space at 36 an hour. A 10 hour day and $720 is gone. This number is just one to give you an idea. Wage is different from area to area and difference is given for experience and licensing. Just keep it in mind. You don't want to get scammed but there is a lot of work involve with what your asking and labor isn't cheap.
 
you know what it sounds like to me ?

you have hired an ice cream plumber, lol That is what i call a plumber that is afraid of getting dirty.

they usually wear nice shiny ice cream shoes instead of work boots

its to haaaaaaaard !!!!

pretty boys. Like the ones in commercials.
 
Digging in a crawl space is no fun. Normally you put your lowest skilled guy on it. Most of the time your on your belly with no more than an inch of space above your back digging a hole with an EZ tool. Until that is dug the major work cannot begin.


I have attached some photos of how my crawl space looks after the plumbers' work. This is the work they did before they left the project. How much money is this work worth?

crawl_space_1.jpg

crawl_space_2.jpg

crawl_space_3.jpg
 
It's hard to say. It doesn't look like they got to the buried pipe yet. Unless they were going to abandon in place and run new above the existing. if that was it I wouldn't think that it is worth 4 grand. But, I don't know how much more he was planning on doing. And it also depends on your locality.
 
It's hard to say. It doesn't look like they got to the buried pipe yet. Unless they were going to abandon in place and run new above the existing. if that was it I wouldn't think that it is worth 4 grand. But, I don't know how much more he was planning on doing. And it also depends on your locality.


Here is what I said in a different thread about what the plumbers would be doing:

----
They want to install a brand new sewer pipe, bypassing the old one. The old pipe will still be underground, but the pipe will not be functioning. This will be similar to a heart-bypass operation.

One plumber will dig out a hole in the front yard, and another plumber will dig out a hole in our crawl space. These two plumbers will "meet" and create a tunnel. The new pipe would be inserted into the front-yard hole, and would go through the tunnel to the crawl space.
----


All they did was the digging in the crawl space that is shown in the photos. They had not started digging in the front yard. They had not installed any pipe.

Also, my locality is a suburb of Chicago, Illinois.
 
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I should mention that, in addition to leaving the job and breaching (or not breaching) the contract, this plumber has behaved in shady and dishonest ways.



Here are two examples:

1) During the course of his work, the plumber discovered that he would have to do some work on the pipes under the floor of out utility room. This work would require the removal of some asbestos-containing floor tiles. The plumber offered to do this work for no additional charge, even though the contract would allow him to charge us extra for this "unforeseen" work.

So, what's the problem? Well, the plumber is NOT certified for asbestos removal, and it is against federal law for a non-certified person to remove asbestos. The plumber told us that, if he did the asbestos removal himself, we should not tell our municipality that he, a non-certified person, was removing asbestos. If the municipalitry found out, the municipality would force us to hire a certified person, which would cost a huge sum of money. Basically, this plumber was going to be doing something illegal, and he wanted us to help him cover it up.

Well, my mother and I knew the dangers of asbestos, and we insisted that a certified guy remove the asbestos. A certified guy did come in and give us an estimate. However, the plumber left the project before any utility-room work began. After the plumber left the project, we told the municipality's building inspector that this plumber was going to be doing something illegal, and that he wanted us to help him cover it up.



2) When my mother and I told the plumber that our homeowners insurance would not cover a sewer pipe that was damaged through ordinary wear and tear, the plumber suggested that he and his subordinate could damage the pipe, to make it appear as if the pipe had been damaged in some way other than ordinary wear and tear.

In other words, this plumber was proposing insurance fraud. My mother and I did not go along with this.


My mother believes that, because of this shady behavior, we should file complaints against this guy with whichever government agency gave him his license.
 
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his excuse for pulling off, is the asbestos , he will say he is waiting on you.

Actually, when we asked that a certified asbestos remover be used, the plumber found some guy, and it was that guy who came to us and gave us a free estimate.

On the day my mother spoke to the plumber, before she said what he interpreted as her firing him, he told my mother that the asbestos guy would not be available to do any work on our home for a week, and the plumber seemed to be OK with that delay. So, the plumber can't use the asbestos removal as an excuse.
 
installing a sewer is a 1 day job, 2 days if you guys are slow

just wright in the contract
Time is of the essence, work will begin on 00/02/17 and end no later than 00/03/17
A $500.00 a day penalty will be accessed starting on 00/04/17 at 10 am.

have all parties sign and date the addition to the contact, with copies


For the next plumber, my mother wants to put into the contract the following: that the plumber work on our home every weekday, during the hours of 9 AM to 5 PM, until the job is done. She does not want the plumber to work just 3-4 hours in our home and to then leave to work for some other client on the same day. And she does not want the plumber to work on non-consecutive weekdays (for example, coming in on Monday, not coming in on Tuesday, and coming in on Wednesday).

Is that a reasonable stipulation in a plumbing contract? Will plumbers refuse this stipulation? My mother seems to think that she can require plumbers to work on the same schedule that she had when she worked in an office.
 
He may be waiting for the asbestos removal to be complete. You could just ask him why he has not been putting in full days. I am sure he was just trying to help you with cost of the job and the insurance. I am not sure you will get far with trying to get him on insurance fraud.
 
He may be waiting for the asbestos removal to be complete. You could just ask him why he has not been putting in full days. I am sure he was just trying to help you with cost of the job and the insurance. I am not sure you will get far with trying to get him on insurance fraud.

He was not putting in full days because he had other clients. He told us this.

While waiting for asbestos removal, he could have started digging in the front yard, and he could have completed the tunnel from the front yard to the crawl space. Also, he could have started installing sewer pipe. There was plenty to do before the asbestos was removed.
 
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