Gas shutoff valve locking mechanism

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Call up Spire or PG&E and ask them if you can loosen the nut on their gas valves to turn the valve off and see what they say
Heck no don't ever loosen that nut!

As I said in my original response, "First, as others have said, do NOT loosen that nut on the backside of the valve. It should never be loosened unless that valve is removed from service for maintenance."

I guess you still don't read my posts unless I respond to yours.

And I TOTALLY agree that the gas company's plug valves should not be loose enough for a grandma to close. But in my cases, Spire took care of the valves because those valves needed to be reconfigured or replaced. Spire in St. Louis has a safety initiative to improve safety in their current installations. I had no problem in getting them to take care of the two instances noted above. However, they still won't relocate their gas line, valve and regulator that is in the basement of one of my houses. The good news, it being out of the weather, it is easy for me to turn with a 12" crescent wrench. and I'm only 5' 11" and 205.

I suspect that there are local ordinances in some places where new construction or modifications of gas piping does require a house side valve. That is a good thing.
 
There could be very high pressure on that line.
Whatever the street pressure is.

My uncle cut a 1” high pressure line in the city easement one afternoon and the whistle it made would make your ears ring.

I folded the broken line in half trying to pinch it off but it was still whistl’n Dixie

We didn’t get charged, I don’t know why we didn’t……

It was so loud we had to yell at each other to talk.
 
There could be very high pressure on that line.
Whatever the street pressure is.

My uncle cut a 1” high pressure line in the city easement one afternoon and the whistle it made would make your ears ring.

I folded the broken line in half trying to pinch it off but it was still whistl’n Dixie

We didn’t get charged, I don’t know why we didn’t……

It was so loud we had to yell at each other to talk.
Yep it happens!
 
My gas valve at the meter is in the open position and cannot turn to the OFF If needed which is bad. I know i have to loosen the nut on the right (right arrow), do I also need to loosen the nut indicated by the left arrow? if yes what tool should i use? looks like a 3 grove socket or similar?
Thanks
View attachment 37587
As it was pointed out, I would not mess with the valve, it belongs to utility. But if some work is required to be done on internal gas plumbing, say move water heater, or add fireplace, this may be the only valve to close the gas lines, since other valves are next to the appliances. This is not a ball valve. There is a conical stem with a hole inside a conical body. To turn it off, the nut could be loosened by just a small fraction of a turn. Tap with a hammer to release the seated stem, turn it off and tighten nut back. It probably would start leaking, so I would let utilities to operate it.
 
I'm sure most know but every appliance that uses natural gas is required to have their own shut down gas valve before the appliance. I'm only guessing, but is a way to keep most from needing to touch the incoming main shut off valve.
 
As it was pointed out, I would not mess with the valve, it belongs to utility. But if some work is required to be done on internal gas plumbing, say move water heater, or add fireplace, this may be the only valve to close the gas lines, since other valves are next to the appliances. This is not a ball valve. There is a conical stem with a hole inside a conical body. To turn it off, the nut could be loosened by just a small fraction of a turn. Tap with a hammer to release the seated stem, turn it off and tighten nut back. It probably would start leaking, so I would let utilities to operate it.
My goodness alex7003, listen to the experts here. I echoed their advice with the comment below in my original post on this subject.

"First, as others have said, do NOT loosen that nut on the backside of the valve. It should never be loosened unless that valve is removed from service for maintenance."

This is a plug valve. If you loosen that nut, it may not reseat properly. What you describe will reduce the torque required to turn that valve, but NEVER do what you describe as you will NEVER be able to assure a bubble tight valve.

If the valve is taken out of service, that nut can be removed, and the valve refurbished and tested.
 
My goodness alex7003, listen to the experts here. I echoed their advice with the comment below in my original post on this subject.

"First, as others have said, do NOT loosen that nut on the backside of the valve. It should never be loosened unless that valve is removed from service for maintenance."

This is a plug valve. If you loosen that nut, it may not reseat properly. What you describe will reduce the torque required to turn that valve, but NEVER do what you describe as you will NEVER be able to assure a bubble tight valve.

If the valve is taken out of service, that nut can be removed, and the valve refurbished and tested.
I am listening to the "experts". And I said the valve would be leaking after loosening the nut. Apparently, some of so-called experts do not know the design of a conical stem $3 valve and unable to close it in a case of emergency without shutting down the block and taking valve to the shop. So, expert advice from MIC69 please. If an internal low pressure gas line is broken and the choice is between bubbling leak outside of the house or house being exploded, what the advice would be?

By the way, the larger wrench may not necessarily solve the issue -if stem is being seized or there is a galling going on, applying larger torque would make stem stuck only more, and eventually end up shearing the stem leaving valve open.

I had an "expert" came to winterize my pool, and he broke two stuck 2" gate valves and just walk away. Yea, I have so much trust in experts...
 
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It is essential safety information for every homeowner to know how to turn off any and all utilities at or before the point of entry into their home. As a home inspector my reports always show this information and it’s always explained to the homeowner as well. Emergency services will always know, and always shut things off, but no reason not to beat them to it—if you can do it safely.

Electricity is fairly easy and common; the main breaker is at the service panel and this is always close to the meter. In cases where not accessible they’ll break the seal/lock and yank the meter out.

Water is peculiar. In northern climates the meter is often inside, but the shut off street side can be anywhere. There is always a shutoff at the meter. In warm climates the meter is outside in a box. The master shut off can be anywhere; garage, closet, laundry room, etc. The problem here is that you may have a long run of pipe/tubing inside the home prior to the shut off. I have to find it and report on it.

As noted here, gas is street side at/before the meter. Doesn’t matter if it “belongs” to the gas supplier—it needs to function, and you should be able to turn it off. If it’s defective and won’t turn that’s a hazard. Emergency services will not call the gas company first; they’ll shut off all utilities in case of a fire or other emergency. If they can’t shut it off at the meter, there’ll be evacuation and the gas company called.

Nobody wants trouble. If there’s gas line work being done in the home the gas fitter will certainly shut gas off to the home.

Can’t easily shut off gas? Call them to change the valve.
 
Sorry, it just doesn’t work that way in the real world.

A homeowner can’t call the gas company and demand the gas company install a valve that the homeowner says they can turn off.

Same goes for the water company.


Now they can do it if they want but they are under no obligation to satisfy your request for a valve that YOU say is satisfactory.

The water company here will charge you $75 to come out and turn your water off if you can’t turn their valve. They may replace their valve and they may not.

If you break their valve they will charge you to repair it.

It’s not required that a utility company provide you a valve that you say you can turn.

The power company doesn’t provide a disconnect and all homes do not have one main breaker. They have an outside panel but it may not have a main. Some do not have a panel at all, it’s just a meter socket.

The customer has the responsibility to provide their own valve to turn off. Similar to a main power breaker, the power company doesn’t provide it.
Real world talk…….

Start working on their valves and you might get charged with misdemeanor utility tampering. It’s a crime here.
 
I am listening to the "experts". And I said the valve would be leaking after loosening the nut. Apparently, some of so-called experts do not know the design of a conical stem $3 valve and unable to close it in a case of emergency without shutting down the block and taking valve to the shop. So, expert advice from MIC69 please. If an internal low pressure gas line is broken and the choice is between bubbling leak outside of the house or house being exploded, what the advice would be?

By the way, the larger wrench may not necessarily solve the issue -if stem is being seized or there is a galling going on, applying larger torque would make stem stuck only more, and eventually end up shearing the stem leaving valve open.

I had an "expert" came to winterize my pool, and he broke two stuck 2" gate valves and just walk away. Yea, I have so much trust in experts...
I know these threads can deviate from the initial question, so I understand how you are a little confused.

adb's original post was, "My gas valve at the meter is in the open position and cannot turn to the OFF If needed which is bad. I know i have to loosen the nut on the right (right arrow), do I also need to loosen the nut indicated by the left arrow? if yes what tool should i use? looks like a 3 grove socket or similar?"

It is obvious that adb was trying to close that valve and that he knew that nut needed to be loosened. That is a false statement. Therefore, the advice by Professional Plumbers and a Professional Engineer was NOT to loosen that nut to see if you can close it, because you do not need to loosen that nut to close the valve. Your concern about the valve leaking after loosening the nut is real. So, the proper advice given was/is don't loosen that nut to close that valve.

Some have said let the gas company or fire department operate that valve in an emergency. My thought, as is yours, that in an emergency, the homeowner should be able to operate the gas company's valve. But you must do it correctly.

My advice was/is to contact the gas company and tell them you have an issue. As Twowaxhack indicated, it may depend on who you talk to, and they may or may not change the valve or assist you in operating their valve. They would help you by turning off that valve to allow a plumber or mechanical contractor install a house side valve, possibly for a fee. and then they would turn their valve back on after they inspected your entire house's gas piping and appliances.

As it turns out, adb was able to turn that valve using a larger wrench without loosening that nut just like one should be able to do.

By the way, it is called a "plug valve", not a "conical stem valve". And they are more like $40-$50, not $3. Also, these valves have a steel body with a brass plug. Brass does not gall on steel.

Gate valves have an entirely different design and are more prone to breakage that these steel plug valves with brass plugs. I think I would hire a more qualified and customer-oriented pool guy.
 
Two years ago we had new gas mains installed in surrounding neighbor hoods. Everyone got a new service line installed
up to the house and then hooked up to the house line. No charge to residents. At the street we use to have curb stops but
now they installed automatic shut offs. If there is any kind of a leak even a pin hole in the service line to the meter the gas
shuts off automatically. We also have a valve on the riser before the meter. The horse stood up for just a second. LOL
 
The gas company might say leave our valve alone, it’s fine.

Just because a homeowner can’t turn it doesn’t mean there’s a problem with the valve. They’re often tight and require a 14” or bigger wrench.

It’s not there for a homeowner.

If a homeowner wants a valve, install it on the customer piping on the customer side of the meter.

It’s a really simple concept.
The valve in this situation is definitely a safety hazard! If it were me, I would put a larger wrench on the hasp side, NOT the "nut" side, while putting some decent pressure to close it, take a hammer and give the nut, by the right side of your picture, a decent "rap". I almost guarantee that it will move.
If that doesn't do it then call the gas company to repair/replace it.
 
The valve in this situation is definitely a safety hazard! If it were me, I would put a larger wrench on the hasp side, NOT the "nut" side, while putting some decent pressure to close it, take a hammer and give the nut, by the right side of your picture, a decent "rap". I almost guarantee that it will move.
If that doesn't do it then call the gas company to repair/replace it.
What you call tight, what I call tight and what a fancy pants homeowner calls tight and what the gas company calls tight will all vary when it comes to the gas providers shut off valve
 
The valve in this situation is definitely a safety hazard! If it were me, I would put a larger wrench on the hasp side, NOT the "nut" side, while putting some decent pressure to close it, take a hammer and give the nut, by the right side of your picture, a decent "rap". I almost guarantee that it will move.
If that doesn't do it then call the gas company to repair/replace it.
Me thinks you are over 7 months late with your response. LOL
 
I'm sure most know but every appliance that uses natural gas is required to have their own shut down gas valve before the appliance.
Well yes, but in some instances it may be really hard to use by the homeowner.

In our house the gas furnace and gas water heater are side by side in a utility closet. There is a door in front of the water heater and one on the short side of the rectangle in front of the furnace. Each has its own shutoff. At one point I thought it prudent to see if I could turn those off at their respective shutoffs. The one for the furnace is just to the left of the door frame, easy to reach, and turns easily with one hand. The one for the water heater is on the wall behind everything. There is about a 4" gap between the furnace and the heater. I can get my hand to the shutoff but cannot turn it. There is a gap between the furnace and the back wall but the door frame is partly in the way and so access in that direction is just as bad. Admittedly I'm only 5'8" and 135 pounds, and forearm strength isn't one of my better features. I'm guessing that I could probably turn it with both hands, especially if I could get closer to it to apply some leverage. As it is now, opening that valve is literally all in the wrist.

The gas company had a program about a decade ago where they were inspecting and optionally replacing the hoses on appliances. Their guy had no problem turning the handle with one hand, but he was 6'2" and around 190 pounds (estimates obviously).
 
The other side has the normal rectangular metal tab where you insert the wrench to turn ON or OFF but it doesn't turn and that's perhaps the side indicated in the picture has a locking nut but i am not sure about the one to the left.
turn harder
 

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