Gas fire - thermopile issue? Pilot lights but no flame.

Help Support Plumbing Forums:

tailgunner

Active Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Messages
27
Reaction score
3
Location
,
I ran into same problem with my gas fire place that started from a low voltage wall switch . The Thermopile is heated by the pilot, then sends millivolts thru the wall switch to ignite the main burner, Changed out thermopile and that did the trick.
 

hcanning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
2
Location
Usa
Hi, so I have this valve assembly. R10563 Gas Control Valve Maxitrol Propane Gas Vent Free .
..fireplace guy costs $200 a visit and is booked til Jan 2022. I showed him my broken fireplace at his shop and he reckons it's the incoming gas pressure. My gut tells me the gas pressure to the fireplace is low since extending the gas line and adding a stove. It's all that's changed. Is there an adjustment screw on this valve assembly that can be slightly adjusted to boost the incoming pressure (manifold valve pressure) to open the valve for fire to flame up. Could need the slightest of adjustments to get fire going.
Thanks
 

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
5,791
Reaction score
2,611
Location
United states
Extending a line and adding a stove wouldn’t decrease your pressure unless the stove was in operation.

Did you add any pipe between the fireplace and your propane tank ?
 

hcanning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
2
Location
Usa
Extending a line and adding a stove wouldn’t decrease your pressure unless the stove was in operation.

Did you add any pipe between the fireplace and your propane tank ?
No there was no pipe added between fireplace and propane tank. Plumber added a T connection and about 8-10ft of pipe to add the stove. Thanks
 

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
5,791
Reaction score
2,611
Location
United states
No there was no pipe added between fireplace and propane tank. Plumber added a T connection and about 8-10ft of pipe to add the stove. Thanks
If the issue is lack of pressure then it’s not because a stove was added unless the stove is in actively on and burning.
 

hcanning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
2
Location
Usa
If the issue is lack of pressure then it’s not because a stove was added unless the stove is in actively on and burning.
Ok thank you. The only other variable was turning off the valve (behind fireplace) on the gas pipe to the fireplace while the stove line was being installed. Could that have caused an airlock or a jamming of the internal control valve in the gas fireplace? Incidentally if it helps pg 7 of attached shows the pressure requirement VFXI-24 Propane. Alas it's looking like I need to retire this fireplace for a potted plant. :) I'm getting my oil furnace serviced this week so will ask him to test the fireplace pressure with a manometer to alleviate my curiosity.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

hcanning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
2
Location
Usa
Reviving this please with new info. Hi so I got a manometer and reading was 0.369 psi on what I believe to be the "manifold test port" (see pic) and Zero on the "supply test port". I followed this video:
and use its terminology.
The Zero (0.000) is surprising as the pilot lights and seems to flame strong. If no incoming pressure then how does pilot get propane to ignite. Pressure chart attached
Any help appreciated.
0.369psi I understand is a 10.21 WC.
I use this manometer:
Digital Manometer, Dual Port Air... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R3J4ZJ4?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Thanks.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

frodo

Just call me Macgyver
Professional
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
8,557
Reaction score
2,957
Location
right here right now, over there later on.
you said the gas fireplace has not worked SINCE the oven was installed?

check for debris in the orifice

just for grins
what BTU's are each piece of equipment on the gas line in its entirety?
 

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
5,791
Reaction score
2,611
Location
United states
It appears that you’re reading inlet pressure and you have zero manifold(outlet pressure). You won’t have manifold pressure unless there is gas flowing through the burner.

Your gas valve is not opening if you do not hear a click when turning the control to the on position with the pilot lit.

Your pic has your manometer hose on the supply test port, the port toward the front.
 

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
5,791
Reaction score
2,611
Location
United states
Make sure all your electrical connections are clean and tight.

If there are any safety high limit cut out switches I would bypass them to check for failure.
 

hcanning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
2
Location
Usa
It appears that you’re reading inlet pressure and you have zero manifold(outlet pressure). You won’t have manifold pressure unless there is gas flowing through the burner.

Your gas valve is not opening if you do not hear a click when turning the control to the on position with the pilot lit.

Your pic has your manometer hose on the supply test port, the port toward the front.
Ok thanks. I start it with a remote control (as manual start doesn't appear to work) and it sounds the same as when it did work. It keeps trying to flame up for like 10+ seconds after the pilot successfully starts.
 

hcanning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
2
Location
Usa
you said the gas fireplace has not worked SINCE the oven was installed?

check for debris in the orifice

just for grins
what BTU's are each piece of equipment on the gas line in its entirety?
Thanks. See attached BTU devices. Fireplace is 38000. Plumber calculated that we should be ok and had this info prior. Nevertheless the fireplace should have enough pressure if stove off I'm assuming. Stove seems to work flawlessly. Good strong flames. Orifice was cleaned and recleaned.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

hcanning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
2
Location
Usa
It appears that you’re reading inlet pressure and you have zero manifold(outlet pressure). You won’t have manifold pressure unless there is gas flowing through the burner.

Your gas valve is not opening if you do not hear a click when turning the control to the on position with the pilot lit.

Your pic has your manometer hose on the supply test port, the port toward the front.
Thanks. Newbie error. The video I watched threw me.
 

hcanning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
2
Location
Usa
Make sure all your electrical connections are clean and tight.

If there are any safety high limit cut out switches I would bypass them to check for failure.
Thanks. I disconnected and reconnected them all. Will do again.
 

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
5,791
Reaction score
2,611
Location
United states
Would a replacement one of these terminal receiver fittings (possibly called an interruptor block) be the way to go? See pic
That appears to be a high limit cutoff terminal block in your thermocouple circuit, that’s not the actual sensor. If your pilot is holding when you release the button after lighting then I doubt that’s your problem.

You could always take those wires off and use a short jumper wire across those terminals. This would bypass it. Only do this for diagnostic purposes, don’t leave it like that.
 
Last edited:

hcanning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
2
Location
Usa
Could just be debris knocked into the gas line, during stove install, now plugging something up at the fireplace.
Thanks could be. I was hoping the favorable inlet pressure reading would still flame it up. I'm running out of ideas. Running on fumes as they say. :)
 

hcanning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
2
Location
Usa
If you have 10” WC on the supply test port your pressure is to low per the spec you posted. The regulator needs 11” WC - 13” WC.
Thanks. So I interpret the chart to say I need 10 WC for the regulator and 11 WC min and 13 WC max for the inlet pressure. Would you agree? Converting psi to WC seems to show my inlet pressure as an insufficient 10.2WC.
So what's the best way to adjust inlet pressure to say 12WC?? Is the valve adjustment screw by the flame finger dial controls for the regulator or inlet pressure? It's strange to see the gas stove perform so well with all burners going and the fireplace struggles to flame up yet it's 8ft nearer the propane tank. Thanks
 
Last edited:

hcanning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
2
Location
Usa
So from what I understand there's a manifold pressure adjustment screw by the flame adjustment finger dials/controls. Does adjusting that impact the inlet and regulator pressures to the fireplace or do I need to get a plumber out to make adjustments at the propane tank itself? ....or am I just outta luck? Thanks
 
Top