FVIR Water Heater Pilot wont stay lit after cleaning filter

Discussion in 'Water Heaters and Softeners' started by arcsum68, Mar 30, 2012.

  1. Mar 30, 2012 #1

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    Model Select State Series 200/201 High Efficiency GS6 50 YOCT 2007 (This was in the house when we bought it 4 years ago, so I have no documentation)

    Been having an issue where the pilot would go out after heating the tank, pretty much just like this guy.

    http://www.plumbingforums.com/forum/f12/pilot-light-will-not-stay-lit-2883/

    I have not opened the unit, but I did get in under the thing with compressed air and a feather duster and cleaned that filter. It worked for a day after that.

    This morning it was out again, so I built a vacuum attachment consisting of a small piece of copper tubing and a shortened 90 so I could really get in there and vacuum the filter.

    Problem now is the pilot wont stay lit. Tested the thermocouple and I am getting 25mw, so that should be fine.

    Suggestions? Should I take it apart and clean out the burn chamber or is it possibly the valve?
     
  2. Mar 30, 2012 #2

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    Subscribing, sry
     
  3. Mar 30, 2012 #3

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    Could it be the pilot assembly, or would the valve be a better guess?
     
  4. Mar 30, 2012 #4

    johnjh2o

    johnjh2o

    johnjh2o

    Senior Member Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Messages:
    3,197
    Likes Received:
    733
    Location:
    Melbourne, Florida
    My guess it you didn't get the filter completely clean. It's not a easy task. Take a look at the link I posted on the post you referred to.

    John
     
  5. Mar 31, 2012 #5

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    Filter is clean, its not getting any cleaner, guaranteed. I cleaned it from the inside and the outside, combustion chamber is completely clean too.

    When I started this whole thing thing the pilot would always light, even before I cleaned anything, the filter being dirty should not keep the pilot from staying lit since it uses minimal air. I could be wrong, but again, lighting the pilot only became a problem today.

    I called State, they are having me pickup a valve from a local distributor under warranty, but they are now closed until Monday :(
     
  6. Mar 31, 2012 #6

    johnjh2o

    johnjh2o

    johnjh2o

    Senior Member Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Messages:
    3,197
    Likes Received:
    733
    Location:
    Melbourne, Florida
    I hope that solves your problem. But I bet State didn't tell you that it was a problem that they were having with there heaters.

    John
     
  7. Mar 31, 2012 #7

    LiQuId

    LiQuId

    LiQuId

    Professional Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Messages:
    868
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    , Alberta
    subscribing to hear the end result. I would have guessed debris in the pilot tubing as a posability, but you can light it ? try testing the Valve coil to see if its making contact ( becoming energized ) ... though warranty sounds like they maybe know something we dont ;)
     
  8. Mar 31, 2012 #8

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    I've read this series of water heaters by State and AO were terribly designed. I clean out everything, blew out the pilot tubing, cleaned out all the debris. Even lifted up the baffle on the bottom so I could fully access the top of the disc to clean it from both sides. Blew through the pilot tube and I could see the flow on the flame of a lighter. Not sure how much air I should be able to push through the pilot tube, but it's definitely not blocked. Besides, it actually stays lit as long as I hold down the knob, so gas is going through there, something is telling it to not stay on. Nothing was particularly dirty to begin with (outside), there was no layer of lint or anything, just light dust. I am almost beginning to wonder if the problem was with the valve the entire time. After the first cleaning it took me 5 or 6 tries to get the pilot to stay lit, I turned the temp up and down a few times and it finally lit and stayed lit. That cleaning got me through a day.
     
  9. Mar 31, 2012 #9

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    I will say, they are awesome about the warranty. I have no documentation, no receipts nothing. Going to a supply house on Monday to exchange it for free. Hard to beat that on a 5 year old water heater.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2012
  10. Mar 31, 2012 #10

    LiQuId

    LiQuId

    LiQuId

    Professional Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Messages:
    868
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    , Alberta
    john had mentioned something about the a.o smith water heaters on a previous forum but I hadnt heard about the problems with the state water heaters also having this problem. good to know, sweet that they are good on the warranty.
     
  11. Mar 31, 2012 #11

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    I was under the impression from my research that they were made almost identically, but I have done a lot of reading, so I cannot be sure.
     
  12. Apr 2, 2012 #12

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    So far so good, it lit on the first try and its heating up the tank.

    I will report back later, let everyone know if it stays lit. Cant wait for a real shower.
     
  13. Apr 10, 2012 #13

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    So I obviously had a combination of problems, because I am still having issues. State is sending me a pilot assembly, on the 13th when they get back in stock. Pretty bad that I have to wait 2 weeks for it to even get shipped. After replacing the valve, and having it work for 12 hours I went to put the outer cover back on, I touched the thermocouple wire and it immediately turned off the pilot, then would not light, even hours later.

    Anyway, the thermocouple on this water heater has a small disc that from what I read is a thermal cutoff device. I never looked at what was printed on mine, but I believe they are around 200 degrees. Is this the temperature of the combustion chamber?
    All things still lead back to the chamber getting too hot because the filter is dirty, but it's not. I have cleaned it several times inside and out using the attachment I made out of copper fittings per numerous instructions. Also the flame is a nice blue color which indicates it's getting enough air, from what I found in an excellent document made by Reliance the flame will be yellow if it's starving for air. On that note, the chamber is getting too hot if it should be around 200 degrees, my multimeter came with a temp lead and the combustion chamber is 200 up to 250. I was only able to test this because I replaced the thermocouple with a universal one for the purpose of testing. So now I know that either the thermal cutoff device is bad on my original unit or there is still something causing the combustion chamber to get too hot.

    I did head up to the roof to check out the vent, which looks to be very clear and free of any debris. I cannot see past the bend, but I doubt there would be any issues there since everything else was clean and showed no signs of problems.
     
  14. Apr 11, 2012 #14

    LiQuId

    LiQuId

    LiQuId

    Professional Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Messages:
    868
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    , Alberta
    temp of the combustion chamber could be told with a infra red meter, but the approximate maximum flame temperature for natural gas is 3600 'F

    thermocouple ( universal ) should work in place of whatever was there, but a snap disc will have a manual reset on it.

    A yellow flame is a carbonizing flame, like a fire in a firepit causes soot and buildup due to incomplete combustion and not enough primary air

    a blue flame would be considered a neutral flame as it is in a balance with its air consumption

    a Whistleing flame is an oxidizing flame, also a lifiting flame from the burner ... too much primary air air. ( unless you need this type of flame, like cutting or such )

    I think you need to get a new hwt, it would replace the one you have and solve all your issues... that being said, get the state one you have working and you have a dedicated hot tub filler HWT... :)

    if its a snap disc tripping out is Should be easy to solve, you should get no continuity through the control circuit as it will ahve tripped into the open position .
     
  15. Apr 11, 2012 #15

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    Replaced the pilot assembly last night, to my surprise it was delivered yesterday. Been up and running for some 14 hours when I left the house this morning through multiple cycles and 2 showers this morning. See how things go.

    See my responses in blue below

     
  16. Apr 11, 2012 #16

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    Here are some pics, just in case this helps anyone.

    Here are the tools I made to clean the filter, PVC for the inside and copper for underneath. I had everything laying around, so I made the PVC for inside thinking it would have more airflow to suck the dirt out.

    [​IMG]

    This is exactly like my pilot assembly, with the TCO device circled, no manual reset.

    [​IMG]

    And my clean combustion chamber/filter. The bottom is equally clean, just too hard to get a pic of it.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Apr 12, 2012 #17

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    27 hours and holding with the new pilot assembly.
     
  18. Apr 13, 2012 #18

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    arcsum68

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    I think I am good now, been 4 days now and I have an no issues.
     
  19. Apr 14, 2012 #19

    LiQuId

    LiQuId

    LiQuId

    Professional Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Messages:
    868
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    , Alberta
    glad to hear.
     
  20. Oct 26, 2013 #20

    Renhoek

    Renhoek

    Renhoek

    Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    ,
    Hi,

    Just wondering if it your heater is still working, over a year later?

    I have the same State HWH heater, and the same problem. I replaced the original 200*C thermocouple/TCO assembly with the SKU part that AO Smith (they took over for State) told me to buy, which I bought here locally in CA.

    But the box it came in said it was a "High Altitude" version, and the orange rating sticker said it was "180*C". And yet, I made a follow-up call to the AOS tech support people, and they said it would work.

    But I'm still having the same problem -- burner & pilot shut down after 15 minutes -- so I think the tech person at AOS gave me the wrong SKU and won't admit it!? :mad:

    Where can I find the correct SKU/part number to replace the original 200*C TC/TCO?

    RH in CA
     

Share This Page