For What It's Worth...

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

My friend and neighbor up the street just had a water heater failure in his home. New home, (2018 build). Electric water heater in attic. $850,000 home.
Pan overflowed, ceiling, and insulation damage.
Gas service at house, but builder likes electric because they are cheap. No venting. Who cares about the homeowner? Not the builder.
Homeowner investigated a tankless for the crawlspace. Estimates around $7K with all the needed work.
Either not enough gas in the attic to replace with a gas heater, or plumber didn't like the idea, or some code prevents it. (Plenty of combustion air available with a properly vented attic, and high quality units are spark ignition, not pilot)
So, the plumber replaced with another electric...same place.

...this time with a water alarm. Hopefully will give enough warning next failure to prevent ceiling damage.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I prefer electric water heaters for my location. Easy parts access and they’re cheap. I haven’t replaced the elements in mine so far and it’s 8yrs old.

The homeowner chose to go back with the same type heater and put it in the attic.....so money is STILL dictating what’s installed and where, just like the builder his decision based off money.....

At one time electric companies would give the builder a water heater if they’d go electric.

Your post is a lesson on what people will spend their money on and what they won’t spend their money on.

The builder figured out long ago that price is more important to more people that what type of water heater and where it’s located. It’s really that simple.

 

[Twowaxhack]

This was texted to me by a customer 15 minutes ago.

This man has a $750,000 house that has a guest bath upstairs that this heater services. The downstairs are tankless units.

He called this Am with no hot water in the guest bath. Confirmed the pilot is not burning. He Could not light pilot.

It’s over 20 yrs old, in the attic and in a plastic drain pan that’s 1.5” deep.
No walk way to service the heater......

Check that gas line out

That’s ridiculous

He will most likely go with another heater and we will upgrade the drain pan. Probably custom build it. The man is old and doesn’t like to change much.


These things do not surprise me I find this on a regular basis. All inspected and approved work. New constructions race to the bottom.

 

[JG plumbing]

This is one of the many reasons a person commissioning a home should hire a professional designer/architect. An architect has no incentive to cheapen the design, as in most cases they get paid based on total cost.

People who hire a builder to do a general design are going out on a limb, a limb who's incentive is to cheapen things up.

Of course people only think about money. An extra $$$ will make them go out on a limb. When the just a little more $$$ can save them a nightmare down the road.

 

[SHEPLMBR]

Why in the world would someone put a water heater in the attic?

 

[JG plumbing]

Why in the world would someone put a water heater in the attic?

No basement

 

[Twowaxhack]

My guys water heater needed a new thermocouple and the pilot cleaned.

Scheduled him for a new water heater next month.

Their 15yr old dog fell into the pool before I got there and drowned. It wasn’t a good time to be at the home.

 

[Zanne]

I would never trust gas in an attic. Hell, I won't even trust gas in my home. We have electric. With my luck, gas would leak or get turned on accidentally.

 

[JG plumbing]

I would never trust gas in an attic. Hell, I won't even trust gas in my home. We have electric. With my luck, gas would leak or get turned on accidentally.

If you lived in a cold climate and had only electric you would have to install grease zerks on your meter becuse of the spinning.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Right now our electric company will give you a 30-50gal water heater for free if you switch from gas to electric. I just checked.

The Gas provider will sometimes run a special for a free water heater when switching from electric to gas. I didn’t check because they wanted too much info to see if I qualified for any rebates or specials

 

[Jeff Handy]

My guys water heater needed a new thermocouple and the pilot cleaned.

Scheduled him for a new water heater next month.

Their 15yr old dog fell into the pool before I got there and drowned. It wasn’t a good time to be at the home.

View attachment 30208

What is that tool lower right, an ice cream scooper?

 

[Twowaxhack]

What is that tool lower right, an ice cream scooper?

It’s an old toilet tank flush handle. Look at it again.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Why in the world would someone put a water heater in the attic?

I ask that question all the time. You generally won’t find it in the upper Midwest or north east because you don’t want to put a water heater in an area that will get below freezing consistently…like a properly vented attic.

I have been working with a good friend of mine who is the building superintendent for a large home builder in the area and trying to figure out the answer here.

Here are some of the things we have come up with.

First, they want to go with the cheapest solution possible without any regard whatsoever to anything after closing or warranty period.

So for that reason they will do things like use an electric water heater when natural gas is available at the homesite. Not only are electric water heaters less costly but there’s no venting required. So that’s a double saving right there.

i’m not certain that they are actually putting gas water heaters in the attic here because that has a problem: history indicates that it’s very likely that a pilot light will go out. God forbid they use a spark ignition pilotless gas water heater. That would be too expensive.

@Twowaxhack nailed it when he said something about the design of the home. They simply don’t allow for a proper place for a water heater…always assume it will leak. So it needs to be located where it won’t cause damage.

Since they have no clue as to how to build a basement (here in NC) they have little place for the utilities. So they stick’em wherever they can. No thought to service, replacement or even initial installation. I feel sorry for the poor plumber trying to shoehorn a new tank up those rickety attic steps, through the joists.

If it’s not the attic it’s worse…a “ventilated” crawl space that’s no different than outside. Two months after we turned on the A/C here, four months after we moved in, our crawl space was a swamp. 98% humidity. All metal parts of the HVAC system literally dripping. Yes all insulated ductwork and a vapor barrier (what a joke) but those metal collars and even the insulated distribution boxes were dripping…and we had mold growing on the joists. All built to NC code. I told the builder I don’t give a rat’s ass about code! I have a brand new home and it’s a festering swamp because of your “code”. We came to an agreement about encapsulation. But if they had made some minor changes in the home design up front it would have been a better home, easier utility installation, and no encapsulation needed. Penny wise and pound foolish.

My friend and neighbor might have been able to get some minor pro-rated warranty on the water heater failure, but it would have not been worth the effort to collect it—and it certainly wouldn’t pay for the drywall and insulation damages.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

I would never trust gas in an attic. Hell, I won't even trust gas in my home. We have electric. With my luck, gas would leak or get turned on accidentally.

Well, the gas furnace is in the attic. Attics, done correctly, are the best ventilated part of a home. It’s not the gas that’s the issue, it’s 50+ gallons of hot water above living space.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

If you lived in a cold climate and had only electric you would have to install grease zerks on your meter becuse of the spinning.

The old joke is that the only people that heat with propane live out in the woods…so they don’t disturb the neighbors when they scream when the propane bill comes. I suppose you might say the same for electric heat or hot water, too!

I had to have a gas line put in the laundry room. Builder asked why? Apparently almost nobody has gas dryers here in NC. Theymust all be stockholders in Duke Energy.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Well, the gas furnace is in the attic. Attics, done correctly, are the best ventilated part of a home. It’s not the gas that’s the issue, it’s 50+ gallons of hot water above living space.

How do you feel about water heaters installed in just a finished space ? 3 story homes with the water heater on the second floor ? I see a lot of those.

 

[Twowaxhack]

The water heater I posted above is in attic but it’s a two story house so you have to walk up stairs then pull down the 10’ staircase to access the attic.

I add $300-400 in these situations. I hire two big meatheads from a gym I pass by everyday.. $50 each and they fight to get the job, only takes them15 minutes. I use to do it myself and a helper, can’t find permanent help now days. I have the new heater ready to go up and the old one rigged to come down.

Most all water heaters are not pro rated. You get a brand new heater with the remainder of the warranty on the old one.

You know electric heaters are generally more efficient than gas gas is just cheaper for the consumer to purchase, unless it’s propane I suppose.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

How do you feel about water heaters installed in just a finished space ? 3 story homes with the water heater on the second floor ? I see a lot of those.

That’s not much different now, is it? Unless the room it’s in is built like a shower, I couldn’t live with it. Some builders here were putting tankless hanging on a wall outside…until they ended up replacing them when they froze during a power outage…

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

…You know electric heaters are generally more efficient than gas gas is just cheaper for the consumer to purchase, unless it’s propane I suppose. ✌

All electric stuff (heat) is 100% “efficient”; all the energy is put to use, no waste. It’s just extremely costly to run. Payback on a gas appliance is brief, making it a smart choice. Not everyone has the luxury of natural gas service. Some never had gas, not used to cooking or drying with it. Anyone with electric baseboard heat will tell you how costly it is. But CHEAP to install…

My heat pump in Michigan had a separate meter for the compressor: $0.03 per kw/hr from Oct 1 to April 30. .

 

[Twowaxhack]

My incoming water temp is never below 55 and that’s only in the coldest part of the year and that’s only for about 2 months.
Usually it’s in the mid 60’s.

In the warm/hot months it’s usually 70-78 degree range


So the cost of heating water isn’t really an issue for me having a family of 4.

Same with heating really, I only use heat a couple months out of the year. Our thing is cooling, it gets in the mid and upper 90’s with high humidity.

I’m total electric at my primary residence and my power bill runs 350 in the summer and 200 or less in the winter. Water and sewer combined run $40 a month.

I keep my thermostat on 68 at night and 72 during the day. 2,000 Sq fr plus a garage apartment that’s 400sq ft with a mini split.