Float lever sticking & power to jet pump problem

Discussion in 'Pumps and Wells' started by Zanne, Mar 26, 2013.

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  1. May 22, 2019 #61

    Zanne

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    Thanks, Valveman. I heard from the mfr for the corrugated hose & they said they hadn't tested nor could they recommend using it for a suction application. So, it looks like I'll have to go with the option using the rigid stainless steel pipes & deal with elbows. I wish I knew what the outlet size was on the holding tank. It looks like it starts out larger then reduces then gets larger again. But it could just be bc of the couplings making it look that way. I'll have to take a good look at it in the daylight.
    I wonder if long sweeps would be less restrictive on the flow and/or if I should try to angle it so I can use 45s instead of 90s.
     
  2. May 22, 2019 #62

    Valveman

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    90's are fine. Just make sure there are no high spots in the suction line.
     
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  3. May 23, 2019 #63

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    Ok, got it! I'll make sure the pipes don't go up higher than the inlet pipe. I may have to add a coupling or adapter & a short run of PVC in between the 90 elbows to line it up properly. I need to see how long of a run there is between the current 90s. Ended up not getting anything done today bc my mother fell down & I pulled a muscle in my right arm (well, re-pulled bc it's been injured for awhile & hasn't quite healed) lifting her to get her back on her feet. I used both arms but since my right arm is dominant, I think it was exerted more.
    Looks like the stainless steel straight piece went up in price since I last looked. Might have to see if I can find it somewhere else. Since the stainless steel elbow also went up in price, I'm considering using two PVC elbows instead of the ss elbow.
     
  4. May 23, 2019 #64

    Valveman

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    Having a metal straight pipe on the suction is good. You can switch to PVC before and after that.
     
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  5. May 26, 2019 #65

    Zanne

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    Ok, so I was wrong about my setup. Coming out of the cistern there is a fitting that is either 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" (I couldn't get close enough to tell bc the pressure tank was in the way & the leaking water was spraying me). The fitting is a reducing fitting so it goes from whatever size is in the cistern down to what looks like 3/4". It goes straight for a couple inches then has a 3/4" shutoff valve (The valve is crooked & hard to reach- I don't like it and want to replace it- but if I remove it, I have to first shut off the pumps & let the water go back down in the cistern. I know the fitting on the cistern screws on to something inside of the cistern & I'm not about to mess with that- last time the pump guy had to climb inside it while someone on the outside held the other part of the fitting in & one of them turned their part to make it tight.

    From the 3/4" shutoff it runs a few inches, then has a 90 to take it up above the level of the pump then another 90 makes it run horizontal. It then has about 4 different unions to splice together a horizontal run. Another 90 makes it go back down and immediately has another 90 that turns it toward the pump. It runs to a reducing fitting that goes from 3/4" to 1-1/4". That fitting threads in to the pump's intake.

    I saw a bunch of loose fittings lying around on top of the cistern (un-used ones) and thought they were 1-1/4" but when I got them in good light & read the markings they were 1-1/2". So, either the cistern uses 1-1/2" or my someone (probably my father) bought the wrong size fittings.

    So, what I would like to do eventually:
    • A) Determine what size fitting attaches to the holding tank & put a foot valve on it if there is no check valve on the outlet side
    • B) Get holding tank professionally cleaned bc the inside is absolutely filthy right now
    • C) Replace the reducing fitting on the holding tank w/ one that stays the same size
    • D) Replace the shutoff valve with a PVC ball valve (these first 4 will require assistance from the well repair/install guy)
    • E) Replace the old 3/4" patched up PVC w/ 1-1/4" PVC up to inlet pipe or elbow to inlet pipe & lower it down to same level as pump inlet
    • F) Replace 1-1/4" to 3/4" reducing fitting at pump inlet w/ 1-1/4" stainless steel nipple (I think current one is 5" or 6" but I forgot to measure bc I was getting sprayed w/ water- needs to be rectified asap)
    • G) Put antivibration pad under pump if there is enough wiggle room to do so
    • H) Collect the spare parts sitting on top of the holding tank & store them in an easy-to-access bin to keep them clean
    Steps E through F are priority at the moment to stop the leaking. From there I will have to talk to my well guy to find out what parts I need & see about getting stuff fixed up. Anything before that first shutoff valve will be his area of expertise/skill. After that, I can handle things. I will have to temporarily use a reducing fitting to connect after the valve. I need to get my phoneline fixed before I can make calls though. I know I need to order the steel pipe parts before the prices go up again. The price on the pipe I wanted already tripled & it's out of stock now.

    So, some questions:
    1. Since the current straight line going to the pump intake is about 4 to 6 inches, would it be OK to use a 4", 5", or 6" pipe instead of 8"?
    2. If the pipe is that short, should I go with a PVC fip x socket elbow on the end or should I spend more $ to get the stainless steel street elbow & then go to PVC?
    3. Is there a standard size outlet on holding tanks? (1-1/4" or 1-1/2"?) It's an old one. It's not easy to get close enough to examine the fitting.
    4. If the pipes coming out of the pump are galvanized steel instead of stainless steel, would it hurt to use a galvanized steel pipe instead of stainless steel at the intake?
    5. What sort of sealant should I use on the threads? Would I do teflon tape for PVC to steel & the rectorseal 5 for where the steel threads in to the pump? Or would I use rectorseal on steel to PVC too? Or would rectorseal be a problem if the steel pipe ever needs to be removed from the pump?
    6. Any other suggestions other than to stop procrastinating & get it done?
    Here is a photo I took of the pipe going to the intake.
    gouldsjetpumpMay2019.jpg

    Here's another shot- you can see the pressure tank blocking the view a little
    pumpmay2019-1.jpg

    Here's where it comes out of the holding tank
    pumpmay2019-2.jpg

    And here's a crappy sketch of the suction side from the holding tank. The pipe going to the inlet is spraying water so I will need to patch it asap. I tried flex tape but it didn't take.
    Pumpsetupcurrent1.png

    Editing to add that I moved the box & looked more closely- the bit coming out of the holding tank looks to be 1-1/2" with a 1-1/4" fitting inside & then reduces to 3/4". Not sure if that means the opening is 1-1/2" or if it is 1-1/4" & has a sleeve or something to go around. I also discovered that the shutoff does not work. I turned it off for several minutes and the leak didn't even slow-- unless it's water backflowing into the pump...
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  6. May 28, 2019 #66

    Zanne

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    So, maybe not the best idea, but reviewing the parts I would need & trying to make everything fit, I think the easiest way to get things to fit would be to get the hose that has 1.24" inside diameter & see if it works. Worst case, if it doesn't, I can convert over to PVC fittings I'll still use the SS pipe & threaded street elbow. I'll attach one end of the hose to the nipple then the other to a small male threaded SS nipple. From there, I will attach a 1-1/4" PVC threaded adapter & have some pipe that runs to an elbow that goes from 1-1/4" to 1" (couldn't find 1-1/4" to 3/4" in either straight or elbow). From there I will reduce from 1" to 3/4" so I can attach to the 3/4" line that runs to the shutoff. Once I get my phonelines fixed, I can talk to the well service guy about replacing the rest of it & going to the proper pipe size without reducing. Right now, the air in the waterlines is extremely aggravating & wasting water so I want to get at least a temporary fix.
     
  7. May 28, 2019 #67

    Valveman

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    I think your biggest problem is a suction leak. Looks like it has been leaking where it screws into the pump. Teflon tape is good. Rector seal is good. Sometime I use the pipe dope over the teflon tape. I think anyway you get that back together without leaks will be good.
     
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  8. May 28, 2019 #68

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    Valveman, that's my thought. I think bc of the heat & vibrations the PVC always gets messed up when it goes in to the pump, which is why I'm replacing it with stainless steel. I'm also trying to maintain the pipe size for as long as possible while also bringing the line down below the level of the pump so air won't accumulate like it's doing where the line goes above the pump. I'm glad you mentioned that part because I didn't know it was an issue before then.
    Rectorseal is the pipe dope, right? I could try a combo of rectorseal & teflon tape just to get a secure seal. I've asked & people have answered that they used rectorseal on the steel hose.
    Most of the parts I need can be purchased at either Amazon or Lowes, but there is one bit of pipe I'll need to get from HomeDepot.

    Here is my latest plan. I hate to have so many fittings, but until I can replace it all with 1-1/4" up to the holding tank, I'll have to make do. I'm going to use rectorseal on all of the threaded joints. I wanted to go from 1-1/4" straight to 3/4" but couldn't seem to find the fittings when I searched for them.
    Well-Pump-idea3.png
     
  9. May 28, 2019 #69

    Valveman

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    That will be much better than it was. You really need to get rid of that 3/4 stuff, as that is terribly small for a suction line.
     
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  10. May 28, 2019 #70

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    Oh I truly want to, but there is no way my fat ass could climb inside the holding tank to hold whatever part is inside to make the outside part attach. LOL. I also still can't tell if it's 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" coming out. The outermost sleeve seems to be 1-1/2" or 2" but the inner hex ring type thing looks to be like 1-1/4". That part I will leave to the professional, but I will try to have spare parts just in case. Which reminds me, I suppose worst case scenario if it is 2" or 1-1/2" I can always get adapters to go down to 1-1/4". I definitely need a new shutoff valve.
     
  11. May 30, 2019 #71

    Siestamagic

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  12. Jun 1, 2019 #72

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    So, the hose, the elbow, & the 5" pipe arrived but the shorter nipple isn't scheduled to come in until late this month or early July. I really don't want to wait that long so I'm trying to figure out if there is such a thing as a double male threaded PVC piece that could be used temporarily until it arrives. I wish I could find a street elbow that is mip x fip in the right size. Might just have to go to the store & see what they have.
    Due to the hose not having as much flex, I'll probably put on an elbow before attaching the hose. I'm slightly miffed that the one part that was supposed to be 2-day shipping might not even arrive this month. Might just cancel the order for that part & try to find something nearby.
     
  13. Jun 3, 2019 #73

    Valveman

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    You can thread a piece of sch 80 PVC and make any length nipple you need?
     
  14. Jun 3, 2019 #74

    Zanne

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    The local stores don't keep sch 80 in stock- only sch 40. However, I went to the store yesterday & I got a galvanized nipple temporarily. The pump's outlet already has galvanized steel so I don't think it will make much difference until the stainless steel one arrives.

    I went to Lowes yesterday & had to look through the various bins trying to find the right parts (none of which were in the right bins). Fortunately, my mother was with me & had her reading glasses so she could tell me what the markings said on the fittings (my vision is so bad I can't make out what the markings say). I couldn't find some of the pieces that were supposed to be in-stock bc they weren't in their bins & I had no idea where they were. I also realized that due to the girth of the hose, it can't really bend very much so I had to adjust for that in the plans. I also had to make do with the parts I could find. I was searching through while my brother was playing with parts & building himself a PVC space gun. Then he started putting on pieces of PVC like armor- had arm guards & used some couplings & caps on his fingers-- joked he was a Stormtrooper. I was too busy searching to get pics though. I brought the hose with me to check fitment, which helped out.

    I'm still waiting on one of the stainless steel pieces to arrive in the mail. I forgot it hadn't arrived yet but it will arrive this week. I'll have to do this project very early in the morning before it gets hot-- was 94 degrees w/ heat index of 100 yesterday. Weather here skipped Spring and went straight to Summer.

    I'm trying to remember what the configuration will be, but I'll have the SS pipe coming out of the pump inlet attached to an SS threaded street elbow. From there I attach the hose which goes to another SS (galvanized temporarily) nipple which screws in to a threaded x slip adapter that connects to some pipe that runs to another threaded x slip adapter that screws in to an elbow (couldn't find just slip elbow in that size- could only find slip x fips). Pipe will come down from there & then go to 1-1/4" x 1" elbow (I think I found one of those) more adapters to make stuff fit then I can't remember if I need more pipes or whatnot but I have an adapter that goes from 1" x 3/4". I then have some 3/4" couplings. My bag ripped so I hope I didn't lose any parts. I'll have to put it together when I'm looking at the parts again. I might have some things out of order. I wanted portions of the horizontal run to be able to be removed rather than cut if need be. I may not end up using all of the parts but I wanted to grab extras just in case. I'm too lazy to do a sketch of this latest plan at the moment, but I'll take photos when it is done. I just hope that pipe comes soon. I have to check the post office today anyway.

    As for the sealing-- someone suggested putting pipe dope on the pipe & then putting teflon tape on top of that to mash it in to the threads. But then Lasco brand says not to use teflon tape or pipe dope but people seem to do it all the time- I think the concern is accidental overtightening. I want to make sure it doesn't leak so I'll just be careful not to over-tighten.
     
  15. Jun 3, 2019 #75

    Valveman

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    Female threaded PVC fittings can split if you put too much Teflon. But they never get tight with teflon paste of slick pipe dope. I have better luck with a few layers of teflon with rector seal over that.
     
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  16. Jun 3, 2019 #76

    Zanne

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    Ok, so the rectorseal goes on top. Got it. I'll be careful not to overdo the teflon on the fips pvc.
     
  17. Jun 10, 2019 #77

    Zanne

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    I got the fittings & got home but found the bag had ripped & I lost one or two of them (found some of them in the truck & some on the ground the next morning but at least one was missing). The I found that one of the pieces I didn't check on the pipe is either defective or the wrong size (could have been in the wrong bin). It is supposed to be 3/4" & has the same OD as it but the ID was too small to go around 3/4" pipe so I think it might be 3/4" to 1/2". I just went to the local hardware store to pick up the missing pieces. I offhandedly mentioned stainless steel fittings & the clerk very happily told me that they were very excited at the last trade show because they found a stainless steel fitting bin so they now have them. They were about the same price as the ones at Amazon. We can cancel the order on the piece that isn't coming 'til July because I found it in the bin. Also picked up another SS street elbow because I wasn't sure if the flex pipe could bend tightly enough to fit between the pump & the pressure tank. So the new plan is to have two SS 90s connected to one another, then have the flex pipe -- which will give me a little wiggle room & reduce vibrations from the pump & it will attach to a 1-1/4" x 3" nipple that is will attach to a 1-1/4" fips PVC fitting. After whatever distance that needs to run, I'll have a PVC 90 down to the 1-1/4" x 1" reducing elbow. From there I can use a 1" to 3/4" adapter to go down to the crappy 3/4" size- if said adapter is needed.

    I kind of wanted to have a decent 1" run before reducing to 3/4" but I don't want to cut it off too close to the shutoff in case the older PVC splinters when I go to cut it. I should have picked up an extra 3/4" shutoff while I was at the store just in case. I also should have gotten a thing for cleaning the pipe. I think I'll do cleaning before I do any cutting-- which reminds me, my pipe cutters seem to have sprouted legs & walked off. Sometimes I think the "Borrowers" may be real. I've misplaced a wireless network card, the fitting, the pipe cutters, & a 10" frying pan. Don't ask me how I lost a 10" frying pan. I have no idea. I thought it was on the counter & now it's not there. I wonder if I put it in the cabinet & forgot... no, I looked there... It would be funny if I didn't nee the stuff. LOL.

    Question: If the OD of the 3/4" fitting fits snugly inside the 1" end of the reducing elbow, can I get away with just using that instead of having 1" pipe come out of the elbow, then having the 1"x3/4" reducer? I think my only concern with that would be if something broke I might have to replace the whole elbow as well as the 3/4" stuff.

    Another question: Should I put in anything to add support to the pipes to hold them up somehow? I know the SS parts will be heavier & I want the weight to be supported so it won't make the lower 3/4" pvc break. Trying to think if I could wedge something underneath. I think I have some foam packing stuff I could set under it... Also, the PVC cement I got says it takes 15min to set & 2 hours to be at it's strongest (couldn't find the clear stuff the pump guy used that set much faster-- unless what he used didn't & he just turned stuff on quicker than he was supposed to)-- should I leave the water off for 2 hours for it to cure or would it be ok after 15min?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  18. Jun 11, 2019 #78

    Valveman

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    Sometimes the OD of a 3/4 fitting will fit snugly in a 1" coupling or elbow. These will glue just fine. Also if 15 minutes isn't enough time, you will be redoing it all over again. I would give it at least an hour.
     
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  19. Jun 11, 2019 #79

    Zanne

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    Thanks. The container says "2 hours" so I think I'll go with that. Maybe I can schedule it so I will do the gluing & take my mother out somewhere so we can eat & have access to running water while it cures. If I can just find a cutter.... LOL. I'm going to take an anti-inflammatory medicine & see if it helps my back so I can do more cleaning & see if the cutter is under some empty cardboard boxes or something.
    I hate not being able to find stuff.
     
  20. Jun 14, 2019 at 2:07 AM #80

    Zanne

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    Ok, after a ton of cleaning in the kitchen, the living room, and the front room I finally found my pipe cutter (but the frying pan is still missing). My back hates me after all the lifting so I'm hoping to tackle it tomorrow morning. At least I can see the floor in my kitchen again (although the cats knocked the trash can over about 10 times). I had to chuck some of those wool dryer balls (supposed to be antistatic or something) across the floor to distract them. One of the cats kept sitting on top of the dust pan & another was chasing the broom.
    I was debating with myself about whether or not I should go attempt the fix now, but I'm losing daylight & don't want to have to try it with a flashlight or lantern.
     

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