DROP IN DOMESTIC PRESSURE 7 STORIES HIGH, FLUSHOMETER DOESNT WORK?

[cappy208]

Good Day:
Have a 7 story high boat. Water pump in lowest level. Toilet with sloan flushometer on 7th floor wont flush properly (never has since boat was built). Dumping 2 gallons in directly will allow it to flush. It just doesn't get enough water quickly enough to overcome the trap.

Several remedies have been tried: Installing 3/4" line all the way to it. Xtrol tank installed nearby. Direct piping, with 1.4 turn valve. None helped. Any thoughts on how to increase pressure/volume up top?

Possible answers we have discussed:
add separate small pump just before toilet to get the top to 30 psi.
install old fashioned gravity tank (which would be jammed almost at overhead)
figure out how to change flushometer insert to make it pass more water quickly at lower pressure.

Thanks

 

[Geofd]

Good Day:
Have a 7 story high boat. Water pump in lowest level. Toilet with sloan flushometer on 7th floor wont flush properly (never has since boat was built). Dumping 2 gallons in directly will allow it to flush. It just doesn't get enough water quickly enough to overcome the trap.

Several remedies have been tried: Installing 3/4" line all the way to it. Xtrol tank installed nearby. Direct piping, with 1.4 turn valve. None helped. Any thoughts on how to increase pressure/volume up top?

Possible answers we have discussed:
add separate small pump just before toilet to get the top to 30 psi.
install old fashioned gravity tank (which would be jammed almost at overhead)
figure out how to change flushometer insert to make it pass more water quickly at lower pressure.

Thanks

can you get a pressure reading on the 7th fl flushometers need about 25 psi to work ....what size pipe is feeding you flushometer should be 1 inch has the flushometer been rebuilt is the correct (gpf)kit in itdo all other fixtures work????

 

[cappy208]

The other four on floors 2, 3 4 all work fine. It is just this one. The is the third in this class of boat, and after talking to other boats none of their 7th floor heads have EVER flushed properly. They all use a 5 gallon bucket and dump it in. Being a little OCD, I am trying to get it fixed. It would seem that the 7 story water column has too much head pressure to get 25 psi all the way up here.
Thinking of how to increase it, or reduce the flushometer restriction. the entire boat is plumbed with 3/4" copper. Would a 4.5 gl A-36-A flushometer kit allow more water (albeit at less pressure?) I am going to take the flushometer apart to see which insert it has in it tomorrow. Pressure down at pump is 50 psi. Pressure at 7th floor is 19.5 psi. seems like an amazing drop in pressure for only a 65' rise

 

[Geofd]

can you get a pressure reading on the 7th fl flushometers need about 25 psi to work ....what size pipe is feeding you flushometer should be 1 inch has the flushometer been rebuilt is the correct (gpf)kit in itdo all other fixtures work????

what is the pressure at the beginning of the water main???? a different flushometer kit wont work if its designed to flush 1.6 that's the kit you need

 

[cappy208]

The pressure down in engineroom is 50 psi. Up top it is 19.5 (actually it fluctuates as the pressure drops off, until the pump kicks in). why does sloan sell 4 or 5 different flushometer kits for regal valves? I'm trying to figure all this stuff out to make what we have work. The office will pitch a fit if I order stuff and it doesn't work. they have already spent about 500 bucks in materials and labor trying to get it working over the years (by my estimation of the retro fitted parts, pipes, pipelines and hoses they have tried.)

 

[Geofd]

The pressure down in engineroom is 50 psi. Up top it is 19.5 (actually it fluctuates as the pressure drops off, until the pump kicks in). why does sloan sell 4 or 5 different flushometer kits for regal valves? I'm trying to figure all this stuff out to make what we have work. The office will pitch a fit if I order stuff and it doesn't work. they have already spent about 500 bucks in materials and labor trying to get it working over the years (by my estimation of the retro fitted parts, pipes, pipelines and hoses they have tried.)

sloan makes these different kits because there are toilets out there that are much older flushing 3.5 gals....now1.6 gals...1.28 gals you may want to contact sloan...see what they say ....have you thought about a tank type toilet???that way
your using the water in the tank to flush rather than just water pressre ....talk to sloan first.....

 

[cappy208]

sloan makes these different kits because there are toilets out there that are much older flushing 3.5 gals....now1.6 gals...1.28 gals you may want to contact sloan...see what they say ....have you thought about a tank type toilet???that way
your using the water in the tank to flush rather than just water pressre ....talk to sloan first.....

There is very little space at WC for tank, I would have to install a tank almost at ceiling height. Regarding the specific flushometer kits, they all assume 25 to 30 PSI. So, since PV=T, Pressure is to volume, I would think a larger GPF insert (at lower pressure) would solve the problem. I ordered the 4.5 gpf insert. Will see how that does. Yes, tomorrow I will try to find the sloan contact number. Thanks for bouncing ideas around.

 

[Geofd]

how about trying a temporary dedicated line in pex just to see if it worked.....then you could figured a permemant route if it did work

 

[cappy208]

how about trying a temporary dedicated line in pex just to see if it worked.....then you could figured a permemant route if it did work

Plastics are not allowed on boats of this size. has to be steel, copper or galvanized. The previous engineer tried 3/4" flex copper piped directly to the spud, with a 3/4 turn valve, totally on, totally off. didn't change it. I think that there is simply too much head pressure to overcome at this height. I put in a 0-50 pressure gauge near the xtrol tank. That is how I made sure of the pressure up top. The gauge in the Engine room is fairly new, and shows 50 psi. The lower heads work just fine. So I think it's simply lack of pressure up high that I have to overcome.

I took out the current insert. It is a a41 a 1.6 gpf insert. So I will see if the a36a 4.5 gpf gets more water to the bowl quicker to flush it properly.

 

[Geofd]

Plastics are not allowed on boats of this size. has to be steel, copper or galvanized. The previous engineer tried 3/4" flex copper piped directly to the spud, with a 3/4 turn valve, totally on, totally off. didn't change it. I think that there is simply too much head pressure to overcome at this height. I put in a 0-50 pressure gauge near the xtrol tank. That is how I made sure of the pressure up top. The gauge in the Engine room is fairly new, and shows 50 psi. The lower heads work just fine. So I think it's simply lack of pressure up high that I have to overcome.

I took out the current insert. It is a a41 a 1.6 gpf insert. So I will see if the a36a 4.5 gpf gets more water to the bowl quicker to flush it properly.

you say all other boats of this height have this problem has ENYONE ever solved this issue???????

 

[cappy208]

you say all other boats of this height have this problem has ENYONE ever solved this issue???????

My company has three of this class tugs. None of the upper heads flush properly. The 5 gallon bucket is the solution. The oldest one is 1998. this one is 2003! No one has been able to figure this out. I'm gonna take a crack at it.

 

[Geofd]

cou

My company has three of this class tugs. None of the upper heads flush properly. The 5 gallon bucket is the solution. The oldest one is 1998. this one is 2003! No one has been able to figure this out. I'm gonna take a crack at it.

could you use a storage tank on the 3rd or 4th fl then pump/pressurize it from there???????

 

[cappy208]

cou

could you use a storage tank on the 3rd or 4th fl then pump/pressurize it from there???????

An Xtrol expansion tank was installed nearby the flush, but it still only gets to 19 psi to pressure up. I'm thinking a small inline pump may be a solution. Going to try the 4.5gpf insert first. Found a 1/2" flojet pump for $110 on amazon. Probably will order that next trip. One thing at a time.

 

[Geofd]

An Xtrol expansion tank was installed nearby the flush, but it still only gets to 19 psi to pressure up. I'm thinking a small inline pump may be a solution. Going to try the 4.5gpf insert first. Found a 1/2" flojet pump for $110 on amazon. Probably will order that next trip. One thing at a time.

if you istalled a small storage tank on below floors and pumped it from there it would be like pumpimg from less than 7 stories

 

[Geofd]

An Xtrol expansion tank was installed nearby the flush, but it still only gets to 19 psi to pressure up. I'm thinking a small inline pump may be a solution. Going to try the 4.5gpf insert first. Found a 1/2" flojet pump for $110 on amazon. Probably will order that next trip. One thing at a time.

the extrol tank is for expansion ...not storage.....