Delta #70 ball faucet cap rotated

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pasadena_commut

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Our kitchen sink has a delta #70 ball in it. This thing has been a major PITA and has been rebuilt at least 10 times in the last 30 years. I would replace it but its bottom is up a long narrow channel behind the sink, and is nearly impossible to see or reach, and the sink is tiled in.

Anyway, it has thrown a new curve. The handle "off" position is no longer straight forward, that is, perpendicular to the base of the faucet. Instead it is rotated about 15 degrees counter clockwise as viewed from the top. Somehow or other it still works, although the "full hot" now seems to have some cold mixed in, as it is not nearly as hot as what comes out of the garage sink, about 10 feet away. The handle was removed, and the plastic piece with the bullet shaped cutout that the ball lever moves in has rotated a corresponding amount. How??? The thing has little plastic feet which lock into the brass of the faucet. My guess is that those have snapped off. Or do these faucets have some new to me failure mode which allows the brass base to somehow move?

As an extra added bonus when the handle came off underneath was a colony of I don't know what bug. They were tiny, tiny, tiny, and ran around with great vigor when unexpectedly exposed to the light. The only animal I know of close to that size which moves similarly are red mites, but these bugs were black, and smaller.

I have had very mixed luck with repair kits for this beast. Even the Delta's RP77738 kit would sometimes not work, or work long, on a fresh install. Danco worked better last time, but other times not. Maybe this is just the usual "quality varies" of all such Chinese made parts.
 
In my memory, there is a single tab on the white plastic guide.
Replace with a new guide, properly insuring that you press it into the receiving slot whilst tightening the cap.
Pretty foolproof in my 47 years working on them.
You deserve a new faucet.
 
So, as luck would have it, today my wife lifts the faucet handle to turn it on and the arm on the ball snaps off 2 mm below the set screw position. I picked up a repair kit yesterday for the ball and cap, so that isn't a big problem. The thing is, while searching for the kit in the bay at HD we saw replacement domes for this faucet. One from Delta

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Lever-Handle-Cap-Assembly-in-Chrome-RP50/100415389
and one from Danco

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-7-8-in-Metal-Cap-for-Delta-88756/203194038
The one on our faucet is missing the adjusting ring on top. There are just the threads around the inside top, but not a plastic or brass insert. It has the grooves around the base so it is apparently (part of) a Danco.

That top part has never been present on ours since we bought the house. What does it do?
 
That adjustable plastic top part controls the amount of pressure down on the ball. Adjusting that plastic part is what the tool that comes with most Delta kits is for.
 
The way it is now, when the guts were replaced the cap was tightened down until it stopped leaking out the top or out of the faucet. At that point the ball was already quite hard to move without the handle in place for more leverage. With the lever it took a little force, more than one finger's worth, but not more than maybe a pound or so. The one exception was the only time I greased everything first - then the handle could be moved with one finger, and it didn't move down on its own. Consensus on this forum though was that greasing the ball, seals, and/or cap was a no no.

In a normal Delta with a "ringed" cap, tightened down so that nothing leaks, can the ball be too loose - so that the handle can fall on its own? In that case adjusting the ring keeps it from moving? I can imagine that, but "too loose" is not a state this faucet ever exhibited once it was tightened enough not to leak.
 
Replaced the springs, seals, ball, rubber seal, and plastic cap with those from a Danco 86970 kit. (As has been done numerous times before, which usually works but only lasts a couple of years before failing.) The tab for the plastic cap is in the slot but somehow it still rotates a bit so that the bullet shaped hole is several degrees off from perpendicular to the base. The one which came off was at the same angle, and it must have been in the slot or the tab would have been mashed. I'm positive the new one's tab is in the slot. It was shoved down in the slot, then a large socket placed on top to hold it in while the big metal cap was tightened down. The metal cap appears to be the Danco replacement cap because it has grip lines around the base, minus the upper ring part (which was never present since we moved in), whereas the Delta cap has a smooth base.

The new one "works", but for some reasonly only shuts off fully when the lever moves to the off position from the hot side. Do it from the cold side and a pretty substantial drip results. Wonderful, a sink lever with hysteresis! Probably results from the slightly rotated plastic cap and maybe something mildly out of spec in the ball itself.

What could possibly be making these plastic caps assume the slightly rotated orientation now? The inside of the faucet has a pin for the ball and a slot for the plastic cap, and those are set in metal, I believe the same piece of metal, so they should not be able to move with respect to each other. Maybe Danco is making the plastic caps smaller, so that they can now pivot on the tab, rather than being constrained all around by the metal cap?
 
Just have to analyze what is wrong on basis of observation.
I've had my hands on hundreds over my career and never had a slight problem.
 
If you used the danco parts that's your problem, along time ago I used danco parts on a delta faucet and it leaked, like breum said, I've worked on hundreds of delta faucets they should be straight forward
 
That valve has three soft copper tubes behind it that can easily twist if not careful. It is not uncommon for unsuspecting DIYers to twist it completely off the back half of the valve. Sounds like yours got slightly twisted. Those valves are finicky as they get older, and it’s possible that the inside has worn enough to not seal fully anymore. There are larger “remodel” escutcheons that would allow the valve to be replaced from the front, which is what I would recommend.
 
Rebuilt this thing again today with a Delta RP44123 kit, which includes their metal cap and this one had the metal adjusting ring.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Faucet-Repair-Kit-RP44123/204058967
Also replaced the two bit O-rings on the cylindrical part of the spout (not leaking, but they were quite old.) While reinstalling removed the adjusting ring and held the cam pieces over the ball down with a thin walled deep 19 mm socket until the cap was tightened down by hand. Then put the adjusting ring back on, tightened it up until it hit the plastic part of the cam, then 1/4 turn more using the little tool (not included in RP44123, but I had one from a previous Delta kit.) Turned the water back on and it leaked not at all in the off position. Moved it to full cold and it leaked a little out the top, gave the adjusting ring another 1/8 turn or so and it stopped. Didn't leak then in full hot either. The handle moves very easily now and no leaks.

I think what may be happening is that without the adjuster ring in the cap the cam tilts up at an angle so that the cap must be cranked down more and it all doesn't fit all that well and the seals wear out faster. The seals that came out looked horrible, they had expanded at the ball end, stuck together in the middle, and the cold side was missing a chunk towards the outside.

Notes:

A. I tried to put on the cap with the adjusting ring in it but the cam kept popping its tab out of the groove in the faucet housing. Using the socket it stayed in place while the cap went down, and the pressure from the cap was enough to hold it still while the adjuster ring went back on.

B. The instructions, such as they are, for the adjuster ring are in the installation/routine maintenance page for that type of faucet. The one I found has 27817 up the side, probably a faucet model.

https://media.deltafaucet.com/MandI/27817RevD.pdf
Anyway, in a tiny footnote at the bottom of the maintenance page it says:

1. Never tighten cap assembly to stop a leak, always tighten adjusting ring.
2. Using wrench (Accessory Order Only), partially unscrew adjusting ring before attempting to remove cap assembly. Always install cap assembly HAND TIGHT, then tighten adjusting ring.

C. I think the cap we have had on since we moved in was one of the Danco ones with a plastic insert, and that must have broken or been lost by a previous owner.

D. The adjuster ring puts even pressure on the cam plastic just outside of the triangular shaped structure that the ball handle passes through. That would keep the cam flat and level. The cap alone looks like it might be pressing its curved dome onto the outer edge of the plastic cam. Either that or it lands on the very outer edge of the flat part of the plastic cam. I could not see into that narrow space well enough to decide.

E. The diverter valve's outermost O ring seemed to have expanded, so that it did not sit nicely in its groove. I didn't have a replacement, so stuck it back in anyway, and the sprayer still seems to work normally. I don't understand how that part works since there is a big O ring above and below the diverter
 

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