Deep well solution

Discussion in 'Pumps and Wells' started by Mike Wiz, Jun 3, 2019.

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  1. Jun 3, 2019 #1

    Mike Wiz

    Mike Wiz

    Mike Wiz

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    We live on a small tropical island and one of our biggest problem is lack of knowledgeable plumbing help. So far I have not found locally anybody that can answer a lot of my questions so here I am. Please note I did not set up our water system, I inherited it as is.

    Our property water supply comes from a 22 m deep well (4 inch outer pipe drill with 1 inch inner pipe) and a surface mounted 2 hp pump that fills a 600 litter interim deposit tank at the well surface. From this interim deposit tank we use another 2 hp pump with a pressure tank to pump water to an 80 m distant, 6,000 litter gravity tank which is elevated by another 15 m above the well surface. From there I have a choice of either gravity feeding the property (for those quite common power outages) or directing the water supply through another 1,000 litter pressure tank with a 2 hp pump (for being able to operate on demand water heaters).

    This whole setup with three 2 hp pumps seems like an overkill, is probably costing us a ton on our electricity bill and I am looking for suggestions on how to do a more efficient and more reliable setup.

    Question 1. do I really need 2 hp pump to suck water out of the well (1 inch pipe, 22 m deep)? If not what size/power pump will do the job?

    Question 2. do I need a pressure tank for pumping water from the interim tank to the gravity tank or can this be done with a pump only (80 m distance, 15 m up, 1 inch pipe)? If a pump is sufficient, what size/power pump will do the job?

    Question 3. do I really need 2 hp pump with a 1,000 litter pressure tank feeding the property? If not what size/power pump will do the job?

    Please steer away from submersible deep well pump suggestions. Not available here and nobody has any clue what or how to do with them. None the less, after answering the above questions I would still like to hear if you have any suggestions on how to do this whole thing better.
     
  2. Jun 4, 2019 #2

    Valveman

    Valveman

    Valveman

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    "Steering away" from a submersible is doing away with your best option. A pump is always more efficient pushing water than when sucking water, Your well maybe 22M deep, but a single pipe jet pump cannot suck water from deeper than about 7M. So the water in the well must be less than 7M deep. A 1/2HP, 10 GPM submersible would pump 15 GPM all the way to the gravity storage tank. A 3/4HP jet pump will only do about 12 GPM all the way to the gravity tank, so you don't need the second pump. Then the re-pressure pump at the house should also be no larger than 1/2HP with the pressure tank and feeding the house. I have no idea why you have 2HP pumps? Look at the curve for a J07S Goulds, as that should be as large a pump as you need in the well and to boost the pressure at the house.
     
  3. Jun 9, 2019 #3

    Mike Wiz

    Mike Wiz

    Mike Wiz

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    Thanks for your reply. We are sucking water from 22m depth coz that is where the filter is a the end of 22 meter pipe. I do understand the max depth for a single pipe pump but we have a dual pipe pump.

    I would love to order online a submersible that can push up to 50m but there are two issues. First I am not sure what pump/controller to buy and second there is nobody here that would actually know what to do with it. Using a pump similar to what we have now is the only way I can find anybody who knows how to install and maintain. Another issue being is that I would actualy havve to buy

    So Question 3. answered and the considering the specifics of our situation questions 1 and 2 still remaining. I add a new Question 3.

    Question 1. do I really need 2 hp pump to suck water out of the well (1 inch pipe, 22 m deep)? If not what size/power pump will do the job?

    Question 2. do I need a pressure tank for pumping water from the interim tank to the gravity tank or can this be done with a pump only (80 m distance, 15 m up, 1 inch pipe)? If a pump is sufficient, what size/power pump will do the job?

    Question 3. Is it possible to use a single pump to suck water from the 22m well and then a push it another 80, horizontal plus 15m height or will we always to limited to using two pumps for this job?
     
  4. Jun 10, 2019 #4

    Valveman

    Valveman

    Valveman

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    With an ejector at the bottom a two pipe jet pump can lift 22M no problem. A 1/2HP will pump about 5 GPM, a 3/4HP will give 11 GPM, and a 1HP about 15 GPM. YOu don't need 2HP for anything.
     
  5. Jun 10, 2019 #5

    Mike Wiz

    Mike Wiz

    Mike Wiz

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    Thank you very much for the info. Exactly what I needed to know as the answer to my first question. Means I could straight downsize my first pump to 3/4 HP without any concerns. This volume would keep full both my interim tank and gravity tank without any issues.

    Sorry to push on further but the other current setups are actually the confusing ones.

    Question 2. I suspect I don't need a pressure tank for pushing water from the interim tank to the gravity tank. No pressure is required at point of discharge into the gravity tank. Water just needs to be delivered there. I expect this can be done with a pump only. Currently its 2 HP pump coupled with a pressure tank. (80 m distance, 15 m up, single 1 inch pipe)? If a pump is sufficient, what size/power pump will do the job?

    Question 3. Is it possible to use a single jet pump to suck water from the 22m well and then a push it another 80m, horizontal plus 15m height or will we always be limited to using two pumps for this job?

    Thanks so much for all the info.
     
  6. Jun 11, 2019 #6

    Valveman

    Valveman

    Valveman

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    A pressure tank is only needed if you have a pressure switch. The pressure tank/pressure switch will automatically turn the pump on and off when faucets are opened or closed. But if you power the pump manually or use a float switch, a pressure tank/pressure switch is not needed.

    A deep well jet pump can build as much pressure as you need. You can use a pressure switch/pressure tank with the jet pump and not even use the storage tank. The only reason for a storage tank is if the well won't produce enough water, or if you want to store water for times when the power is off.
     
  7. Jun 12, 2019 #7

    Jim Jensen

    Jim Jensen

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    can someone diagnose *THIS* symptom ??? I have a shallow well, with a 1/2 hp pump, it has a pressure switch, and a small pressure tank.... I turn the power on to the pump, turn on the faucet, and the water comes out, but then the pressure drops a lot, for 10 or 15 seconds or so, and then comes back up, full pressure, lots of volume...... check valve bad ?? I believe it has a PVC check valve on top of the well pipe, looks like this: [​IMG]

    Thanks,
    James Jensen
    Jacksonville, FL
     
  8. Jun 12, 2019 #8

    Valveman

    Valveman

    Valveman

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    Sounds like your pump is having to prime up when it comes on. I don't like PVC check valves. Get a metal, spring loaded, poppet style check valve and see if the problem goes away. You could also be losing vacuum below the check while the pump is off.
     
  9. Jun 12, 2019 #9

    Mikey

    Mikey

    Mikey

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    Is the pressure tank bladder charged properly?
     
  10. Jun 13, 2019 #10

    Jim Jensen

    Jim Jensen

    Jim Jensen

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    yes, when I put it in, a few months ago, it was pre-charged with 10 or 15 lbs of pressure, don't remember how much, I just checked it with pressure valve, and it was charged
     
  11. Jun 13, 2019 #11

    Jim Jensen

    Jim Jensen

    Jim Jensen

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    would THIS one be good ??? it is brass, and I belive it is 1" or 1-1/4" PVC pipe..... ?? it is encased in concrete, with just the top of the check valve poking through, I guess a "cap" like that is a good idea, so that nothing contaminates down the well pipe.....??? I will have to bust up the concrete to remove the old PVC check valve..... I certainly agree, I replaced the PVC they had screwed into the TOP of the well pump, that had been seeping water and rusting the pump, for years, with BRASS/BRONZE fitting.

    THANKS to all for the help !!!
    James in Jacksonville, FL, very close to the St. Johns River, as it makes it way to Mayport Naval Base, where the St Johns River flows into the Atlantic........

    upload_2019-6-12_20-22-14.png
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Jun 13, 2019 #12

    Mikey

    Mikey

    Mikey

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    Should be charged to 2psi below the cuton pressure. With this low pre-charge, I think your short-cycling is to be expected.
     
  13. Jun 14, 2019 #13

    Jim Jensen

    Jim Jensen

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    ok, I will double-check the current air pressure on the tank, and increase it as needed, and will update thread...
     

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