Comercial Clean outs?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Building Code' started by Montybell, Jan 5, 2010.

  1. Jan 5, 2010 #1

    Montybell

    Montybell

    Montybell

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    I have an 8 inch clean out for a commercial property I own. It's extremely difficult to find in stores and people back over it at the street level regularly. Any body know why my business is equipped with an 8 instead of a six?
     
  2. Jan 5, 2010 #2

    Chris

    Chris

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    It is very common to have an 8" sewer line in a commercial property, usually whatever the civil engineer that drew the plans says goes whether it's needed or not. i am still a little confused on what you are asking? Is there a problem that I may be able to help you with?
     
  3. Jan 5, 2010 #3

    Montybell

    Montybell

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    I was just wondering if there was a method to the madness. Eight inches are harder to find and cost more so I was wondering if there is a practical application for this or if was just the plumbers choice me.
     
  4. Jan 5, 2010 #4

    Chris

    Chris

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    No real method, alot of time civils will either not really know and go overkill or there will be some math problem involved that makes no sense to anyone. I don't know where you live but here is two companies that you can get parts from at a decent price and they are nationwide. Just google one of them and see how close you are, they stock all 8" parts. I personally like HD better and that is who I buy from.

    HD Supply Waterworks

    Ferguson Waterworks
     
  5. Jan 6, 2010 #5

    'Cause

    'Cause

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    My drains are stopped up

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    The size is strickly based on what are called 'fixture units' (FU's) and defined by your Building department (BD) standard. IE.. one toilet may be worth 4 FU's, a shower 2 FU's, a lavatory 1.5 FU's... and so on... then there is a table of values in the 'Code' used defining the size required. This info is compiled by the Plumbing design engineer and given to the Civil Engineer.
     
  6. Jan 6, 2010 #6

    Nailer341

    Nailer341

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    You have an 8" Clean out because you have an 8" sewer line.
    I don't know how big your building is, or what water and sewer services you are utilizing, but I can tell you that you should be very grateful to have a large sewer line. All too often we run into issues where the sewer is too small for the proposed fixture units, and it becomes a big pain in the ass to fix and a big unwelcome expense for the building owner to repair.

    Don't worry... Be happy. Seek out the parts for your 8" claen out with a smile on your face :D
     
  7. Jan 6, 2010 #7

    Chris

    Chris

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    I agree with that. Alot of times when I am putting a main in the owner will try and use a 4 or 6" to save a buck. The bigger the better.
     
  8. Jan 6, 2010 #8

    hcj

    hcj

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    The codes specify that the line has to have a "full size cleanout" up to 4" and a 4" cleanout MINIMUM for larger pipes. Therefore we usually only install 4" ones and it is not a question of cost, it is one of practicality. Most lines can be cleaned through a 4" cleanout.
     
  9. Jan 6, 2010 #9

    Chris

    Chris

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    We have to install full size cleanout in my area regardless of minimum unless stated on the plans. For instance if I am installing a 10 sewer line and put a 4" riser on it for a cleanout and 2 years down the road there is a problem I am responsible because I did not install it per plan and I will have to dig it up and fix it. I have run into this problem before.
     
  10. Jan 6, 2010 #10

    Nailer341

    Nailer341

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    You are right: (well, almost. code specs 3.5" min.)

    707.11 Cleanout fittings shall be not less in size than
    those given in Table 7-6.


    I do often see in some of the more industrial uses that the cleanout size does match the pipe size even in the larger dia. pipes. I guess it is at the discretion of the engineer, and not dictated by the CPC.

    Good call, and thanks for the correction.

    What state are you from?

    Capture.JPG
     
  11. Jan 6, 2010 #11

    Montybell

    Montybell

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    Thanks guys I was just wondering! It seemed needless because the cost is exponentially higher than it's smaller contemporaries. So a larger line means more can pass through thereby decreasing my chances of issues? If I read it correctly?
     
  12. Jan 6, 2010 #12

    Chris

    Chris

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    Correct. :)
     
  13. Jan 7, 2010 #13

    'Cause

    'Cause

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    My drains are stopped up

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    About an 'oversised' waste line, this is NOT always a good thing. If the line is sized too far over you will not get the scrubbing effect needed to keep solids from settling in the line!
     
  14. Jan 18, 2010 #14

    wwwrongeorgedesigncom

    wwwrongeorgedesigncom

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    The cleanouts generally are required to be the same size as the pipe they serve. Therefore if you have an 8 inch building sewer, you will have an 8 inch cleanout. You never really discussed the problem with the cleanout other than it was hard to find. That should not be a function of the size.

    As a plumbing designer with over 30 years experience, and as a member of the ASME product standards commmittees for floor drains, trench drains, cleanouts and roofdrains, I typically specify the cleanout type and locate the cleanout outside of a building in an accessible area. If it is in a grassy or planting area, it should be brought to grade and a concrete pad should be poured around it to prevent damage from garden equipment or pedestrian traffic. Cleanout covers are generally a brass or PVC plug inside a sump that allows several inched of space between the pipe and the sump cover to allow for settling without affecting the pipe below. The cover should be rated for whatever traffic is anticipated, Pedestrian (light duty or medium duty) vehicle traffic (medium to heavy duty) depending on the type of traffic anticipated, If the cleanout is in an area where heavy delivery trucks, garbage trucks, or forklifts can drive over the cleanout cover, then a heavy duty or extra heavy duty top should be installed. When the cleanout is located in a paved area, the top elevation should be specified to match the grading and it should be set in a concrete pad anticipated for the traffic loading.
     
  15. Jan 18, 2010 #15

    wwwrongeorgedesigncom

    wwwrongeorgedesigncom

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    As for pipe sizes,

    With the new low flow and ltra low flow fixtures the pipe sizes need to be kept as small as possible so that you dont end up with oversized drain lines. Oversized drain lines are contributing to drainline transport problems with many of the ultra low flow (ULF) water closets. The ASME standard only requires them to transport the solids 40 feet down the pipe to meet the solids removal portion of the ASME A112.19.2 standard for vitreous china fixtures. Most public sewers are much more than 40 feet from the fixture. They reley on subsequent flushes to move the solids to the public sewer. If the subsequent flushed do not occure within a given time frame (in a business where there is a three day holiday or other interupted usage) In installations where the pipes are oversized, and the distances are long, with no additional fixtures to help move things along, there has been an increase in drain line stoppages when buildings are retrofitted with water conserving fixtures.
    To compound things, Many green initiatives are calling for water reuse and grey water systems which divert grey water away from the sewer to be reused for other purposes. This is creating a phenomenon known as "Dry Drains" which is like a river with not enough water to float the boats.
     

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