Bathroom/Laundry remodel: Assistance requested

[Zanne]

I think I may have posted updates in a different thread, but I can't remember. I putzed too long & the tub/shower kit I wanted is no longer available but I think I can still get a different one. I'm thinking that instead of the Moen Kingsley Trim, I might go with the Delta Lahara Monitor thermostatic trim where instead of pulling one lever out & turning it to adjust the temp/pressure, there are two levers on the same escutcheon. The valve for it is much cheaper than the Moen one. Trim kit is about the same. I'm also thinking of going with an American Standard tub spout that looks similar to the Moen 3808 but is much cheaper.

We've purchased the vinyl plank for the laundry room. Right now we are focusing on getting the other bathrooms fixed first. I am a procrastinator but I'm trying to push myself to get things done. I'm really hoping to have at least a toilet in my bathroom by the end of the month or early next month.

Modifications for the plumbing in this one: Instead of running the lav drain separately, I'd tie it in to the toilet's line. Under the toilet I'd have the flange, the closet bend going south w/ a s-tee to put a vent on, then I'd vent outside the exterior wall & up around the soffit. Tub & washing machine will tie in to the main vent.

 

[frodo]

what softwear are you using for that pipe iso?
i likey and want it..

give you a 4 day old half eaten dunkin donut for it

 

[Zanne]

Frodo, for the first & last pics I used MS Paint. If I want to be more precise I pay attention to the number of pixels as I'm drawing. I've gotten a teeny bit better at hand drawing the curves, but sometimes I use the bendable line tool-- draw from point A to point B & then grab it somewhere in the middle and pull to get a bend. I also discovered that I can use the Marker setting for lines to have them slightly see-through when passing over other lines, but I didn't use that in this sketch.
I hope the half-eaten donut is chocolate.

I'm starting to like the idea of the Delta Lahara lever enough to use it in two bathrooms. I like being able to adjust flow rate & temperature separately & a turning mechanism seems easier than push/pull. I saw a really cool thermostatic lever that led me to find it- one with a cross handle on top & a sort of Victorian design but it was $300+ so I looked for similar less expensive versions. The Multichoice valve is fairly inexpensive as well. The Moen valve is over $100. Although, I don't know if I will need extra stuff to make it work (aside from water supply). The listing mentions trim screws & "sponges" sold separately. Sponges?? I wonder if it meant O-rings or washers. Buyers for the trim say it came with the cartridges so, aside from screws, looks like it has what is needed. If I wanted to be fancy, I could spend $20 on a plastic "victorian" ring to go around it. (Probably not going to do that though).

Anyone here ever installed that valve & trim?

 

[Zanne]

I saw a picture on Ana White's site & was inspired-- instead of open shelving for the washing machine water supply & drain, I could have it hidden behind a door-- that way nothing can fall through any holes for the hoses. I'm debating whether to do that for the whole shelf thing, or to only have a door up to the window and have open shelving on the other side of the window.

 

[frodo]

The listing mentions trim screws & "sponges" sold separately. Sponges?? I wonder if it meant O-rings or washers.

i Think.....It is talking about the ''sponges'' that go behind the face plate to the wall
and the one that goes one the valve escutcheon to the face plate escutcheon

 

[Zanne]

I decided to go ahead and order a tub/shower unit before they were no longer available. The ones I'd really wanted have been discontinued so I settled for the Sterling Performa. It allows for a window to be cut out. I decided to get larger window trim at less than half the cost of the Sterling trim. It's Mustee or Muskee Duratrim (the less expensive kind). 36x36x8. The side pieces are designed to overlap at the bottom to have the corners line up.

The tub arrived & is in the workshop. Waiting on the wall kit now & hoping it won't be damaged. Got the tub on a sale for under $200.

I'm taking Frodo's advice on the plumbing and will be attaching the standpipe downstream of the rest of the fixtures.

I also still need to order a window with tempered glass for the shower. I ordered some waterproof trim to go around the top of the window (as the trim kits are only 3 pieces).

 

[Zanne]

Still waiting on the wall kit, window trim, etc. Delivery dates got pushed back. Some stuff won't arrive until the 24th of this month. Trying to sort the plumbing in my head.
I'm going to re-route the kitchen sink drain to go out the wall so the vent will go up near where the existing vent is (need to check to make sure it doesn't conflict with electrical), and add pipe to make it wrap over the eaves.
The tub will have a direct drain (joists permitting) & will merge with the existing main vent inside the wall. Laundry standpipe will be outside the wall on the interior of the house & it's plumbing will be hidden under a shelf behind the appliances and have a vent that branches to merge with the main vent. It will be hidden inside a cubby under the cabinets. Toilet will vent out from under the house and up the exterior wall. Sink will vent out the wall. Vents for the toilet & sink will merge together & so will the drains.
Laundry drain will tie in downstream of the entire bathroom group.
I angled the sink drain the way I did to try to avoid conflict with house supports-- will probably have to use some bends to get it around the supports just near the back door.
I'll also have to figure out approximate lengths/distance.

I'm still trying to figure out the best placement for a cleanout on a vertical pipe for the washing machine & what sort of fitting is needed. A cleanout tee? I've seen them used horizontally.

 

[Zanne]

Picked up the wall set & there's no damage. I think when we go to install them I will put backers on them and add supports in the walls so that grab bars can be added in the future.

My brother now wants a taller toilet (he loves the new one) but we're debating whether to spend the $ to get another taller one & give our friend the old toilet or get a toilet raising platform thingy like ones they sell on amazon. I don't like the kind that lift the seat up but there are some ones that sit under the base of the toilet and raise it 3.5". Not sure if that's a good idea or not though. That might be too high for some of our shorter guests. I think there's only about an inch or two difference between the old toilet & the new one. But for now, the plan is to just put the old toilet in there. Might upgrade to the tower flush system inside the tank though.

 

[Zanne]

Since I last posted we've gone through a tropical storm and 2 hurricanes. Had to evacuate, house got ransacked by raccoons, and best friend had a stroke caused by blood clots. We've had other things to fix up & still need to get around to this. Mostly been taking friend to medical appointments & trying to find a doctor to do something about the remaining blood clots before they kill him.

Some updates. Tub and wall kit have arrived. Also got the Mustee Duratrim thermoplastic window trim. Sides & bottom are 8"x36". The overhang is I think about 1" or more (need to check specs again).
I'm thinking of attempting a mild heat-bend for the ends of the bottom piece to have a more secure sill pan. My plan: About 2" from end snip the overhang. Lightly score the back. Secure it to a straight edge. Use a blow dryer carefully to heat the scored edge and very gently bend it 90°. If it fails it will likely snap off (or just not bend at all) & that will be fine as it's supposed to just be cut off anyway. If it warps at that end instead, it's still OK bc I can cut it off & still have enough material. If it works I will repeat the process on the other end. If it breaks off I will still have a cut end. If it goes as planned, bottom piece will be placed in first & side pieces will overlap.

I'm still trying to figure out how to handle the top of the wall kit. I'm thinking of trying to fold it over the top using the heat-bending again or just cutting off the overhang & using caulk-- I'd like to try the bending technique though. I will have some actual window molding above and overlapping the flange.

I have decided to use the mirror that came with the vanity (I was going to pilfer it for my bathroom but changed my mind). Since it is on an exterior wall, I will not have a recessed cabinet & I nixed the idea of making a medicine cabinet there. Instead, I will have a shaving station on the opposite wall. I will re-use the old recessed medicine cabinet, put a small shelf above it with a slim under-cabinet light. There will be a shelf below with a towel bar for hand towels. The shelf can hold various shaving stuff that doesn't fit in the medicine cabinet. There will be a trash bin underneath that to catch hair- so it doesn't go down the sink or on the floor. There will be a GFCI outlet (just bc I'm paranoid about water) just below the shelf so the cords for razors & such can reach.

I've chosen & purchased the showerhead: Moen Engage 5.5" 2.5gpm handheld magnetic showerhead (docks magnetically on shower arm). It will have an 11" s-shower arm (still need to order). That way it will be held far enough from the wall that if it is tipped downward, the end won't hit the wall.
I got a Delta Multichoice valve with PEX crimp for the side inlets. I will use pvc conduit for the bends (they are like 94cents & they worked for my friend's bathroom) instead of buying expensive elbow fittings.
Will order Delta Lahara dualstatic lever (2 levers on one hole-- there's a pornhub joke in here somewhere).
Moen tub spout (got from a surplus place- was open box but had all parts & was not damaged)
Already have the Sterling Performa bath & shower kit
Already have the Zenna Home never rust double curved shower rod
I think I will repurpose old recessed tp holder or make my own. I will mount it to the vanity & use a cheap picture frame from Dollar Tree to frame it out (already have the frame). I want to see if I can get a small shelf over it to protect the tp from splashes & to have a place to hold wet wipes, cell phone, pencil, etc.
Toilet seat is a Mayfair Sta-tite slow close elongated one. IIRC, same company makes Church & BEMIS seats.

I'm still trying to find a good magazine rack & find a good location for it. We like to keep fill-it-ins & word search books in the bathroom.

I have my eye on a nice rug mat set but I'm hoping it will come down in price.

I will fill the hole for the old dryer vent with a 4" oatey knockout plug thingy so I don't have to mess with the siding, but I will spray foam over the inside of the wall cavity as reinforcement on the inside & use exterior caulk for the outside.
I'm still trying to pick a window. I'm considering ordering both windows for laundry & bathroom to have tempered glass to avoid any possibility of getting them mixed up (as they are both the same size). Need to find a pro window installer that will come to my area & do proper flashing. It's something I don't want to screw up.

I already have the light fixture-- initially was going to have 3 bulbs but found a nice 2-bulb one on clearance (will have to get a picture of box & find listings online for it, but I'm too lazy to go get it right now).
I've chosen the faucet I want for the lavatory: Delta Porter 4-in centerset high arc faucet. It's fairly tall, has good reach, looks nice, & is not too expensive. Found it for $69 on HD and $54 on ebay (open box) + free shipping w/ 30 day free returns). Debating whether its worth it to pay the extra at HD plus 10% sales tax.

I did some sketches in MS Paint but did not really update the north & south views to have the style of the tub. I did make it so the spout doesn't look like a duck bill at least. I drew the shower trim too small & I just threw in a crappy sketch of the showerhead without the hose. I also didn't draw in the shower curtain rod as I am not good enough with the angles/perspective.

My brother is s.o.l. on getting a taller toilet. We are re-using the old Toto Drake from Mom's bathroom. Will be using Toilet Master bolt caps to secure it (they worked on mom's new ADA height Toto Drake). Better than Wax ring has been working on Mom's toilet & on friend's toilet so we will be using that.
After looking at the options in stores for toilet space savers/cabinets & seeing the materials & price I decided I might as well try to build my own. I've binge-watched Youtube videos on techniques and I do slightly remember some stuff from high school woodworking class. I don't have dado blades nor do I know how to change out blades on my table saw, but I saw techniques on how to cut dados with just the regular tablesaw.

For the bathroom floor I've decided that I am going to see if I can get enough scrap from installing the sheet vinyl in Mom's bathroom to do it. We have a 12'x8' sheet. Should be left with 5'x8' (possibly 6'x8') if I cut well enough. Not much room for error but I'm hoping I can make it work. I think I need about 5'5"x5" or so. I'll work with the plan of needing 6'x6'. If it ends up being 5'x8' I should have enough that gaps can be covered with baseboard & shoe molding (pvc/vinyl type so it won't soak up water).

So now, my crappy sketches:
North & South views


Work-in-Progress of east view (ignore the floating vanity- I was trying to get it drawn in a side space and then intended to place it but also had a piece of it as a placeholder):

I used photos as reference & used line tool to measure how many pixels and took notes. Toilet was a major biyatch to draw. I also still need to do the toilet spacesaver, mirror, & vanity light. Also need to update faucet drawing.

 

[Zanne]

@frodo Going back to an earlier sketch, does this look OK? (looks like ABS, but it would be PVC)
And can a cleanout plug fit in the end of a wye or would I need a threaded adapter at the end?

I realized I was wrong about the vanity light. We got a 3-bulb Portfolio one on clearance for $20 so I adjusted that in my drawing.

 

[Zanne]

I bought some cheap wood shelves at a craft store. Came in a 3pack. The medium shelf is 18" wide, which will work for the shaving shelf. I got a dowel to attach to it as a towel bar.
I realized the copper Holdrite bracket I got needs to be soldered to work. But they have a new system with plastic inserts that you tighten to hold the pipe. I could use that for the copper for the tub spout. I got some copper elbows that I can secure with sharkbites (I will have an access panel to check for leaks). The only plumber who will come out here won't sweat copper.


I will NOT be connecting the copper to pex though.

Also panning to do a recessed tp holder that will be set into the side of the vanity.
My rough sketch:

It's wide at the bottom because I want it to work as a shelf to hold phones and wet wipes.

 

[Zanne]

I've ditched the idea of the large tp holder bc it was too big. I will possibly be re-using a recessed tp holder from the existing bathroom instead. I'll have to figure out how to make it stay in of course. Might just buy a new shiny recessed one depending on the condition of the old tp holders. I'm actually thinking of putting electrical inside where the existing tp holders are if the position works out. If not, I'll just waterboard over that spot/wall.

Latest update is that I found Energy Star southern exposure rated double pane argon filled vinyl windows on sale. Got two of them and they arrived the other day. I'll need to get them installed, but I'll need my brother's cooperation to clean up the area first. I may have to hire someone for the installation my friend's ability to do things accurately like that has diminished after his stroke.

 

[Zanne]

When I get my laptop working again I will get my latest sketchup pics off of it. I started from scratch and completely redrew the pics.
Bathroom images:


I don't have the laundry room ones on this computer yet.
The PEX has been run to the kitchen sink and washing machine. I have fittings to be able to add more things on to it. It's much easier to tie in with PEX.

I'm thinking for the drain line I might just run the sink's drain at 45° angle toward the main soil pipe and tie in the washing machine's line on the way. I'll have to draw that in later. I will need to update stuff from my files when my laptop is running again.

Still need to run cold water to the sink. Only have hot water running for now. I might need to see if I can get a plumber to come out and do it as my friend will be working overtime.

 

[havasu]

Why does your sink have a steering wheel? Is this a mobile home? LOL

 

[Zanne]

LOL. Towel ring does look like a steering wheel. Reminds me of the pirate who walked into a bar with a steering wheel in his pants. The bartender asked if he was aware he had a steering wheel in his trousers. Pirate said: "Arr, it's drivin' me nuts!"

 

[Zanne]

I mentioned in another thread that I want to move where I planned to put the drain for the washing machine. Plumbing code for my state allows for 6' of run on a 2" trap arm. The distance from the trap to the bathroom wall is less than 6'. If I put the drain where I was originally planning, it would make it harder to access the dryer vent. So, I could run the trap arm to just next to the bathroom wall and run the pipe down through the floor there and run the vent up along the corner, put a cleanout tee at a convenient height) and then have an elbow to run it into the wall and then another elbow to run it toward the main vent stack. OR I could run it all the way in to the wall and have it go down through the floor there (I know there is no joist in the way) and have one elbow to go to the main stack. I could have part of a cleanout tee sticking out of the wall (if it is necessary). I plan to have a cleanout under the house where the drain pipe comes down. If I do that, is the upper cleanout necessary? I need to draw some sketches of my ideas.

Another thing I thought of is, instead of having shelves behind the washer & dryer is to put in some sort of ledgers on the walls and maybe a shelf bracket coming out to support a sheet of plexiglass that I can set over the top of the washer and dryer to cover gaps and work as a folding surface. It will allow the color of the machines to come through and will butt up against the wall (notched to fit around any trim and stuff) and maybe go into the window area a couple of inches. This will allow light to come through from the window and make it easier to see behind the machines. Then I don't have to worry about weird shelves and stuff. Just a sheet of plexi that can be removed if necessary to access anything. I might put a little lip inside the window to keep stuff from falling in to the window sill. The back left corner can be notched for the washing machine plug to come up. I can adjust the supply line box position down a bit and worst case, if the plexi goes over the shutoffs, I can move the plexi out of the way.

In my sketch I have sharp corners on the plexi, but I would round that off to fit with the shape of the washing machine or even trim it back a little so it doesn't hang over that very front trim piece.



I may be able to recess the box slightly into the wall so the pipe sits flush against the wall. I'll use plumbing straps to hold the pipe in place. I think I like the idea of the pipe going into the wall as it will be less visible, but my sketches have it outside the wall.

I didn't have the right 3d model to do the cleanout but it would be above the top of washer and dryer a bit. Plumbing box needs to come down a little in this sketch.

I saw a piece of plexi for sale at homedepot that would run around $90 with tax. I know I also have at least one sheet of plexi in the workshop but I'm not sure on the size or condition of it. I think it is thicker than the one online.

Editing to add that the main soil pipe runs parallel to the bathroom wall ~12" from the side of the wall within the same joist pocket (so no joists in the way). I could run the washing machine drain parallel to the main soil pipe until it was 5' past the tie-in for the toilet & lav and then connect it to the main soil pipe. It should be able to sit higher than the toilet & lav drains since the latter have to pass under the joists that are perpendicular to the soil pipe.

Any thoughts?

 

[Zanne]

I had an epiphany that I can run the toilet's drain to the interior wall that has the main vent. I could run it at an angle so it could land in or near the same stud pocket as the main vent (so long as it doesn't interfere with water supply lines for the shower/tub valve). I can have it run to the left of the valve and go above the showerhead to tie in to the main vent. I can use a backwards sanitary tee on its back (or would a wye be preferable in this situation?) to have the vent go up before the drain OR I could have an upright sanitary tee that drops to a combo wye that then goes to the soil pipe with another wye. Either way, I'll need a tee and a wye to connect to both vent and soil pipe. Soil pipe is about 12" from the wall and somewhat parallel.

The lav can have its own independent vent and tie in to the toilet's drain or tie in to the main soil pipe independently. I don't want to mess with running anything to the nearby interior wall to the west because of electrical stuff there. Since I'm pretty sure there is blocking in the way of being able to run the drain through the wall, I want to run the drain down just behind the lavatory (which will be bumped forward a few inches to allow for water supply lines & such. I plan to use two 45s to get in to the wall and then go through the floor in the room. I'm debating whether I should have the 45s on the vent or on the drain part. I'm not sure if 45s on a vent are allowed and if they would obstruct airflow, but I'm concerned 45s on the drain might increase chances of clogging.


1. If I want to have the toilet's vent in the wall before it reaches the soil pipe, should I use a sanitary tee on its back facing backwards (so the sweep goes against the flow)? Or would it be better to have the toilet's drain go down there and go to a combo wye and then use another wye to tie in to the main soil pipe?
2. Should I have the 45s on the vent or the drain on the lav?
3. Can I tie in the sink's drain on the toilet line before the toilet's vent (creating a wet vent) or would it be better to tie it in after (or just tie in to the main soil pipe independently)?
4. Is a saddle wye a bad idea?

Rough sketch of the plumbing paths (the washing machine drain would end up running parallel under the wall and tie in to the soil pipe 5' downstream of the last fixture).

So, any ideas?
@frodo ? What do you think?

 

[Zanne]

I looked up the suds relief rules. Forgot it was supposed to be 8' but the exceptions were single-family home and buildings with less than 3 floors. My house fits both of those.

So I'm wondering if I could just have the washing machine as the first thing on the line instead of trying to run it over or under the other pipes to tie in downstream. So long as it doesn't clog vents or siphon water out of traps, I wouldn't mind if suds cleaned the other pipes. LOL.
Edit: Looked up the code and suds relief is no longer a thing with high efficiency machines.

But with the 5' rule in mind (turns out I forgot and it was 8') I did this sketch: