Basement Rough-in Stubs

[Nate5452]

Hello!

I am working on finalizing my basement finishing plan and my Rough-in is perplexing me. After much searching and somewhat guessing I think I might know what each of these Stubs are for, but I need some help to verify and of course help me answer a question.

Thanks for your help!
Nate

In Colorado if that matters
From what I've read this is what I could come up with
#1 - Sink
#2 - Tub/Shower (I know I can verify this with the water test)
#3 - Vent (8" from the wall, but after I put up foam board this won't be as bad)
#4 - Toilet
#5 - Cleanout/Floor Drain? I have another one at the other end of my basement near my sump pump. I plan on covering this up with plywood/Tile flooring.

The second picture show the actual sewer cleanout in relation to what I think is the Vent/Toilet.

I might be able to come up with a good lay-out with this, but was wondering if I could put the Toilet at #1 and the Sink(s) at #4 (without digging up the concrete)

Once again, thanks for helping me out!

 

[Mr_David]

Hire someone with a camera and a locater.
It very important as to how every thing is tied together.
star by opening each pipe and see which way they turn and how deep the turn is

 

[frodo]

i agree, you can not guess what they are, #1 could be a sleeeve over a 2'' ptrap for a future tub

never know, cut the caps, and check them out

 

[Nate5452]

Thanks. I will try to get someone in to take a look. I appreciate the reply

 

[Nate5452]

Alright,

I was finally able to get to this again several months later to check it out and here is what I found out.

See Attached,

#1 (3 inches) is just a standard drain going (it seems) towards the backwater valve.

#2 (2-inches) definitely has a P-trap for a shower. the problem is all the standard size smallest showers that will fit there violate the space required for a toilet at spot 4. This drain seems to be going towards the main stack, but it is a P-trap I am assuming they can change any which direction they want.

#3 (2-inches) is most certainly a vent as it is in line with the main stack and probably would be buried in a wall. (Though there is no vent above this to tap into only the drain for the kitchen sink/island). So AAV?

I need to buy a replacement cap and cut #4 to see where it is going. (Cap was glued on super good).

So my questions to anyone that can help.
1. Why would a sink(s) drain into a 3 inch drain (wet venting?)
2. Can I put a toilet at #1 since placing a toilet at #4 along with the shower would violate code.

Thanks,
Nate

 

[frodo]

.................

 

[Nate5452]

Yeah I thought about that as well for one of my plans. The only issue is that the Toilet will not meet code there with the current piping (too close to shower within 15inches; even the smallest shower pans I could find). I would have to move the P-trap drain somewhat. I guess that is kind of expected though with Rough-ins planned by the builder.


If that piping continues on past the backwater valve and connects below the shower and other 3" drain. I think this will all meet the intent for wet venting with the main stack.

 

[Nate5452]

The more I read on this, I am starting to think the plumber planned for a Horizontal Wet Vent. Will/Can this work with the toilet at #1 the bottom left corner of my picture. As stated I think the main line goes from that #1 directly to the main stack at the upper right corner with everyone else tieing off of this.

Can someone clue me in a little bit better on Horizontal Wet Venting.

Thanks
Nate

 

[Zanne]

Do they sell little offset flanges that let people bump fixtures over a little? I know they have something to bump a 10" rough in to 12" rough in, but would it work sideways?

Would the extra couple of inches give you the required distance?

If you put the toilet where Frodo drew the sink, do you think that would work? It would help to know general measurements to get an idea of how much space you have.

I suck at guessing proportions from looking at things, so you might have to bump the shower away or something.. not sure. I think minimum shower size if you have walls is 36x36. You might be able to get away with having a curbless one with shower curtain from ceiling or something though.

 

[KULTULZ]

Do they sell little offset flanges that let people bump fixtures over a little? I know they have something to bump a 10" rough in to 12" rough in, but would it work sideways?

Would the extra couple of inches give you the required distance?

Offset flange - Will give you two inches-

 

[frodo]

you can not set the toilet on th pipe going to the back water valve, iit has no vent

 

[frodo]

.....................

 

[Zanne]

So the bottom left 3" drain has no vent?

What exactly is a backwater valve?

I think if the OP provided some more measurements of the space it could help. I just now looked and saw there were numbers to indicate some of the measurements. Not much space horizontally for the shower.

Is the measurement for the shower from toilet only if there is a hard barrier (like tub wall or glass door/wall? What if it is a curbless shower? I mean, if there is enough space to close a curtain around the showering area (from ceiling or wall-mount rod) would the toilet be allowed closer?

Perhaps the 2" offset flange could be used as well to give the toilet more distance from the shower.

Edit: What about turning the toilet to have it's back to the shower since the drain is 24" from the wall. Some sort of barrier or half/wall could be put behind it to separate the shower space. Here is the pic the OP posted with some measurements (which didn't load for me earlier)

The layout with known measurements (the approximate 25" between 2" drain and what appears to be a water supply is just a guess). What I'd like to know is how far the potential toilet drain is from that side wall (and I could figure water supply distance from there by subtracting the 6.5") and how much distance is between the back wall and the other 3" drain (which could be for the vanity) and back wall (or distance from the 2" drain to the #1 drain).

The potential shower drain is 38" from the back wall and 25" from the side wall. The potential toilet drain is 24" from that back wall which would leave a rather large gap behind a toilet (although a shelf could be placed there). So, turning the toilet sideways would have more space on the sides and the shower could go behind it and have more space if the entry point was more toward the middle of the room. It could be have a half-wall behind the toilet that glass could rest upon for a more open shower or it could just be a full wall with a more enclosed shower and allow for a space saver to be put on the wall behind the toilet. I know it is a weird layout, but it might allow for things to fit.

 

[Nate5452]

thank you for the advice and hints. We thought about turning the toilet sideways and it will work with an offset flange, but my wife and I think it will just look weird.

The plumber I had come in stated my #1 pipe was probably a mistake and I should cut it down to the concrete and cap it off. (I have a second opinion plumber coming in tomorrow)


You are right about the rather large gap behind the toilet if placed at #4. I calculated at about 6 inches when all said and done. I will definitely have to buy an offset flange and/or move the shower drain closer to the corner to give myself more space.

My wife and I just really wanted the toilet to work at #1... that is why i was focusing on the Horizontal Wet vent codes and it stated (I can't find the reference at the moment) that I can have the vent up to 10 feet away...which worse case calculating this It is no more than 11. (following where i think the pipe is going).

Its actually only about 6 feet to the 3" inch drain (#4) which I could route turn into a wet vent or make some additional adjustments and make it a dry went(although it will probably be smaller than a 3inch vent)??? Maybe? and then leave the vent stack for shower only.

I do appreciate the efforts you all have put into this! It just perplexes me the extra drain.
Thanks,
Nate

 

[Zanne]

Nate, If you can find any software that lets you play around with placing objects and doing measurements-- something like the free version of google Sketchup for instance, you could see how things would look if you placed them in specific spots.

If the toilet at #4 was too far from the wall, you could add little half-walls or space dividers for privacy and have some storage. Another alternative would be to turn the toilet at an angle, but that might be even weirder.

I'll wait to hear back from Frodo on whether or not you could still use the #1 drain for the toilet. If you can, maybe you can turn it at an angle so it is has it's back to the corner. Do you have a rough sketch of how you think the pipes connect under the concrete?

So, drain #1 is about 6' from drain #4?

Keep in mind that you will likely have to put up something over the concrete walls, so that will reduce the distances for some things.