AirGap issues/health department requirment

Discussion in 'General Plumbing Help' started by Danny Danson, Jan 22, 2020.

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  1. Jan 22, 2020 #1

    Danny Danson

    Danny Danson

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    Hi all,

    I have a small assisted living facility which is basically a big house. It is a 14 bed facility so the health department requirements are about the same as a restaurant. We had to install an under the counter commercial dishwasher along with an airgap. The airgap is a residential one with the 1/2" inlet and 3/4" outlet. When the dishwasher discharges, the water just squirts out of the airgap because the pressure is too much for it. The health department insists on an airgap and says a check valve will not satisfy the requirement.

    Since it is a residential kitchen, there isnt too much room for modifications. It has the typical size drains. I was trying to work on an idea of some sort of wide container that the drain hose of the dishwasher would drain into, and then would drain into the drain pipe before the elbow. I'm picturing something that would resemble a 2 litter bottle cut in half. This would prevent any back-flow from entering the dishwasher. Unless there are other ideas. I can't be the only one who faced this.

    Thank you

    Danny
     
  2. Jan 22, 2020 #2

    frodo

    frodo

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    different areas of the US has different codes
    if i knew what state you were in, then i might be of help
    Town would even be better for local codes

    sounds to me like your air gap is not working or installed incorrectly
    post a picture of the plumbing under the sink. want to see the hose and its routing
     
  3. Jan 23, 2020 #3

    Danny Danson

    Danny Danson

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    Hi, Ill get pictures in a few hours. Thanks.. It's in Volusia County Florida
     
  4. Jan 24, 2020 #4

    Geofd

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    In mass if you inject chemicals you would need an rpz(these are usedin high hazard)applications, the air gap is best but like frodo mentioned somethings not right
     
  5. Jan 24, 2020 #5

    Geofd

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    Disregaurd this post
     
  6. Jan 24, 2020 #6

    breplum

    breplum

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    Yeah, your DW is a commercial DW which has high flow output, not compatble with a residential DW Air Gap.
    Commercial DW is designed to run (indirectly) into a commercial floor sink.
    No way around it.
     
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  7. Jan 25, 2020 #7

    Danny Danson

    Danny Danson

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    Hi, I attached the pics of the current config. The airgap is on top of the sink. I had to reduce the DW discharge line from 3/4 to 1/2 to connect to the inlet side of the airgap. I'm sure that caused extra pressure as well. On the right side the 3/4 hose coming down connecting directly to the trap is the DW discharge line. There other two hoses are just to the airgap and not connected to anything.

    I know the ideal way would be to drop it into a drain in the floor, but we dont have that option and as for the health department, there is no other way but to have an airgap.

    That's why I was thinking about building something under the sink that would satisfy the health department. I understand that it would over flow under the sink if clogged, but we have no choice. It would have to be some sort of container that would hold the water from the dw discharge and drain prior to the trap. Something that would not splach all over the place when the dw discharges.

    Thanks
     

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  8. Jan 25, 2020 #8

    Helper Dave

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    One thought: Is your sink drain clogged at all? Even build-up that isn't affecting the sink draining can be too much for a dishwasher to drain through. My company sees this on occasion when we install dishwashers where there wasn't one, or when we have to put in air gaps to fix out of code drain set-ups. I'd snake it out first just to be sure.

    Second thought: Do you have the option of installing a residential dishwasher? We put them in in assisted living facilities, and all kinds of business break rooms (in WI). Sounds like another easier solution.

    What you envision building just doesn't sound to code at all.
     
  9. Jan 25, 2020 #9

    Jeff Handy

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    Can you put a ball valve somewhere on the dishwasher drain line, well before it reaches the air gap?
    Then throttle it back, until the air gap can take the reduced flow?

    It might strain or even kill your drain pump, but what else can you do?

    You are currently trying to discharge too much water too fast.
     
  10. Jan 25, 2020 #10

    Dan the Plumber

    Dan the Plumber

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    By definition, an air gap is just that, a gap between a discharge pipe and the flood rim of the vessel it pours into... For instance a tub spout has to terminate 3" above the tub rim. In a restaurant kitchen certain drain pipes have to terminate above the floor drains that catch the discharge. The ordinary household air gap device is actually there to redirect the discharge to the disposal or directly into a branch tailpiece.

    If you Take out the residential style air gap and install a simple spout that dumps into the sink, like the one here but different, you will be in compliance and make the inspector prove different.
     

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  11. Jan 25, 2020 #11

    Diehard

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    Not acceptable to the AHJ.
     
  12. Jan 25, 2020 #12

    breplum

    breplum

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    Dan the Plumber's idea is good. Though, the splashing could be considerable from my considerable experience with many commercial dishwashers pumped output.

    One solution I have seen is: Open up the cabinet under the sink to access the 2" drain pipe, install a tee as low as possible for a 2" p-trap and add a 12 x 12 floor sink strapped to the wall.
    This will definitely work.
     
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  13. Jan 26, 2020 #13

    Danny Danson

    Danny Danson

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    We had to remove a residential DW because of the health code. It drains perfectly while connected straight to the pipes, it's just the airgap that can't take it.
     
  14. Jan 26, 2020 #14

    Danny Danson

    Danny Danson

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    I thought about that, or even moving the reducer (from 3/4 to 1/2) further back thinking that might reduce the pressure as well.
     
  15. Jan 26, 2020 #15

    Danny Danson

    Danny Danson

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    So will I put the t before the existing p-trap or closer to the wall and add another p-trap? It's pretty close to what I was envisioning but put together better. And the sink would be deep enough to hopefully prevent any splashing. Thanks
     
  16. Jan 26, 2020 #16

    Jeff Handy

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    After you build breplum’s great design, and it passes inspection, make a splash cover or guard, for the new little sink.

    To only be revealed and used when inspectors are gone.
     
  17. Jan 27, 2020 #17

    Mitchell-DIY-Guy

    Mitchell-DIY-Guy

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    Is this even legit to have a commercial dishwasher in a residential environment? Read the warranties; probably not. People used to install commercial restaurant ranges in homes, before they started making them to residential standards.

    An undercounter commercial dishwasher costs over $3,000, some close to $5K. They need chemical feed tanks, some take only 220V, etc. etc. Not designed for use in a home regardless of the residents. They do have cycle times measured in seconds however--most less than 2 minutes. Wow.

    I'd go for trying to get a residential unit approved. Once you let the cat out of the bag with the inspector, then other inspectors will try and start giving you other commercial requirements...you do NOT want to go there.
     
  18. Jan 27, 2020 #18

    Danny Danson

    Danny Danson

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    LOL, ok, call the health inspector here in Volusia county and tell him that. The Health Department Code for 11 or more residents calls for a commercial dishwasher, either heated or chemicals. We Choose chemicals because you do not have to run a 220v line for it. Or you can always do a 3 compartment sink, but we don't have the room. I don't understand why the warranty would be voided by being in a residential vs commercial? As long as the setup conforms.
     
  19. Jan 27, 2020 #19

    Mitchell-DIY-Guy

    Mitchell-DIY-Guy

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    Regarding warranty, here's just one example from the manufacturer "Noble". Don't shoot the messenger, commercial is commercial and residential is residential. Call them and ask...

    RESIDENTIAL USERS: Vendor assumes no liability for parts or labor coverage for component failure or other damages resulting from installation in non-commercial or residential applications. The right is reserved to deny shipment for residential usage; if this occurs, you will be notified as soon as possible.

    One other possibility, don't know if its feasible or even if its a legitimate thing in the USA (seems to be UK), but this topic came up years ago in this forum, and the answer was a "Break Tank" or "Type A Air Gap".

    If that doesn't work, listen to @breplum. Floor sink is the only answer.
     
  20. Jan 28, 2020 #20

    Danny Danson

    Danny Danson

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    I appreciate it. I didn't mean the way it looked. It doesn't matter to the health department how it's done, it just has to be done. I agree with you though, but I have no choice. I am going to give the sink a try though. Thanks
     

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