Air bound baseboard pipes

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Wakajawaka

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Hi everyone. I have an issue that I cant seem to resolve. I have chronic air pockets in my heating system. I have natural gas, baseboard, hot water heat. My house has 2 zones and 3 runs of pipe - 2 downstairs and one upstairs. I had a Utica boiler installed in 2015 but I had the same issue with my old boiler. I believe most of the parts in the system are new except the zone valves and maybe, the water intake valve.

In the beginning of the season, I get gurgling in the pipes. I usually have to bleed them and they quiet down for the rest of the season. Thus season they were quiet for maybe a month, now noisy again. I tried to bleed the lines twice and I am thinking I am not doing it right. It was explained to me a while back but I may have it wrong. Anyway, I did not check the air pressure in the expansion tank so I'm not sure if that's the issue. There is no vent valve that I can see. The only bleeders are in the basement. There are 3 double valves- a long handle, and short handle with a fitting for a garden hose. I cant seem to upload pictures. I cant get a plumber over at the moment and if I can fix it myself I rather save my money. However, u dont want to damage anything. Someone did tell me that the boiler should not lose all pressure while I an bleeding the lines and I believe once it did. One other time it dropped a bit low. I'm pretty sure it rests at 20psi normally.

So....I worked in maintenance years ago and do a lot if diy stuff. However, I caused a big issue with my last boiler...while was over 30 years old from what I've been told. I would kick myself around town if I mess the the new one up. Any help is greatly appreciated Thanks,

Vin
 

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FishScreener

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Hi everyone. I have an issue that I cant seem to resolve. I have chronic air pockets in my heating system. I have natural gas, baseboard, hot water heat. My house has 2 zones and 3 runs of pipe - 2 downstairs and one upstairs. I had a Utica boiler installed in 2015 but I had the same issue with my old boiler. I believe most of the parts in the system are new except the zone valves and maybe, the water intake valve.

In the beginning of the season, I get gurgling in the pipes. I usually have to bleed them and they quiet down for the rest of the season. Thus season they were quiet for maybe a month, now noisy again. I tried to bleed the lines twice and I am thinking I am not doing it right. It was explained to me a while back but I may have it wrong. Anyway, I did not check the air pressure in the expansion tank so I'm not sure if that's the issue. There is no vent valve that I can see. The only bleeders are in the basement. There are 3 double valves- a long handle, and short handle with a fitting for a garden hose. I cant seem to upload pictures. I cant get a plumber over at the moment and if I can fix it myself I rather save my money. However, u dont want to damage anything. Someone did tell me that the boiler should not lose all pressure while I an bleeding the lines and I believe once it did. One other time it dropped a bit low. I'm pretty sure it rests at 20psi normally.

So....I worked in maintenance years ago and do a lot if diy stuff. However, I caused a big issue with my last boiler...while was over 30 years old from what I've been told. I would kick myself around town if I mess the the new one up. Any help is greatly appreciated Thanks,

Vin
The dissolved air in the water comes out over time. The valves and outlets your picture show are drains, and not air relief valves. Which look similar to these, located at the high points, or on air trap stubs, (look like upside down sediment traps): https://www.amazon.com/Taco-400-4-8-Inch-NPT-Float-Hy-Vent/dp/B003QSJLL2/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=Air+relief+valve&qid=1578406247&sr=8-9
 

Wakajawaka

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When you are bleeding the lines at those valves how are you doing it?
Sorry for the delay. Well...I forgot how the plumber told me actually. But I called him and told him how I did it and he said it was fine. I turned the heat up a few degrees and **** all 3 long handles. Hooked up a hose to one drain and opened the small handle for that drain. Then did the same thing for the other 2. Then opened all the long handles back up. Actually worked and the pipes quieted down. But...as it got colder, the hammering and sloshing sound of water through the pipes came back. Drives me crazy.
 

Diehard

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Out of curiosity, when you purged your heating lines, did you allow the PRV(Pressure Reducing Valve) to flow full pressure?
PRV.jpg
 

breplum

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Do you have an expansion tank and air eliminator installed?
We don't know the details of your system and frankly, you need a professional because pieces of a system are no indication of proper installation.
 

frodo

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Sorry for the delay. Well...I forgot how the plumber told me actually. But I called him and told him how I did it and he said it was fine. I turned the heat up a few degrees and **** all 3 long handles. Hooked up a hose to one drain and opened the small handle for that drain. Then did the same thing for the other 2. Then opened all the long handles back up. Actually worked and the pipes quieted down. But...as it got colder, the hammering and sloshing sound of water through the pipes came back. Drives me crazy.

Here is the deal.
It takes more than 1 bleed to rid the system of air.
this is the correct way
fill the system with make up water ON.
open high points on the return side. initial purge
let the water run. out of the high points [ i have purged system all night]
turn on the pump, close high points
let it circ the water
open high points both supply and return
add make up water
turn off the pump and let the system sit
turn on the pump and bleed high points

repeat as necessarry.

when the make up water is introduced to the system, it has millions thousands of tiny bubbles in the aerated water
these bubbles by them selves will only cause a system to be noisy. as the system is used. the water circs but the air
separates from the water, it travels the pipe like pac man. little bubbles eat little bubbles and become big bubbles
when you turn off the pump. the air travels to the top of the system. and the system becomes air bound at that point
OR evilated trapped piping
 

Diehard

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Although there should be vents at the high spots(typically at the return side of the radiators), it hasn't been established that he has them or knows enough to use them.

I was about to ask if he was aware of vents at the radiators.
 

frodo

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Although there should be vents at the high spots(typically at the return side of the radiators), it hasn't been established that he has them or knows enough to use them.

I was about to ask if he was aware of vents at the radiators.
This is a diy site.
i have given him sufficient knowledge to bleed his system.
If he is unaware of how then it is up to him to respond with that information.
If he has no vents, then he should respond with that info
 

Diehard

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My comment was partially directed to the OP in case he wasn't aware of those radiator vents, which it sounded like he wasn't. In a more simplified approach.
 

TomFOhio

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Whoever put those valves in for him knew what they were doing. If done properly he should be able to get the
air out of that system from those valves.
 

Diehard

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Yeah...based on his comments, "Someone did tell me that the boiler should not lose all pressure while I am bleeding the lines and I believe once it did. One other time it dropped a bit low. I'm pretty sure it rests at 20psi normally.", I'm curious as to whether he opened the PRV for purging.
 

frodo

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When purging air, You do not open the air vent all the way, shoot water across the room and laugh like a fool

If your make up water is set at 20 psi, you crack open the air vent and let the water run out at a steady stream
no more that 15psi.
this way. you can purge air and the system will not deplete itself of water as the make up valve keeps the psi at a constant
I use a rubber hose that i toss out a window or lay in a sink.
let the system purge the air out. it takes literally hours to purge a system correctly
That is..If you want a quite system.
 

Jeff Handy

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frodo said,

“When purging air, You do not open the air vent all the way, shoot water across the room and laugh like a fool.””

You must have been spying on me at some jobs, haha!
 

Diehard

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Based on he OP's time to respond the first go-a-round, it may be beyond heating season before he responds to these latest set of comments and questions.

I thought the idea of incorporating means to introduce high pressure water(with PRV's designed to do so) and drain valves for each heating zone, was to let the higher velocities carry the air right through the system and out the drains.
 

TomFOhio

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Everybody has their way of doing things on these boilers but Diehard you hit it right on the head on the way
I do it and get the air out. If he has a 2nd floor or maybe a 3rd floor I always boosted the pressure to 20 lbs and
the system worked great.. When you don't have the bleeders on the piping or on the raidiators, that's when your
in trouble LOL. You better get the torch and solder out.....
 
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