a different hydrant pressure question

[tward]

standard Well system(if there is a such a thing) variable speed 1/2 with a hydrant down at the well, there is ~25' of head going from the hydrant to pressure tank. There is one check valve in operation down at the pump - here's where’s my question seems different from all the other reading. I did look so sorry if I am reasking…

When I open my hydrant, it releases the immediate charge on the system, pressure goes to a trickle ~20 seconds, the switch starts to see the new demand and kicks the pump on. I get pressure and it remains constant and perfect.

Am I doing damage to the pump, pressure tank or switch during that ~20 seconds it takes to sense the demand and kick the pump? maybe it too sudden of a drop in pressure and the variable speed 0-100% in a split second?

Second, is there a way to shrink that 20 seconds? If it takes that long for the pressure drop below the cut on pressure seems to me the only option is to increase the volume of the hydrant so the pressure drops more quickly.

Thanks for your consideration.

 

[Valveman]

NO that is not the way is should work. Which variable speed pump do you have? There are many different kinds. Yes constant pressure is perfect, but there are other more reliable ways to get constant pressure. Because of the many problems associated with the complicated, computerized, and expensive variable speed pumps, where your problem is just one of many, we have been replacing variable speed pumps with Cycle Stop Valves since 1993. The simple, mechanical CSV can deliver strong constant pressure like a variable speed pump, but without all the problems and expense that go with varying the pumps speed.

 

[JG plumbing]

@Valveman i want to say thank you for your info about these. I was not aware. I appreciate your expertise.

 

[tward]

totally appreciate the response. I steered you wrong., sorry I replaced the variable speed a couple of years ago. See image below for new pump. I also have a csv. My switch is 50/70. It just takes ~20 seconds for the pressure to drop to hit the 50 and the pump cuts on if my starting pressure is above 60. So the system is working as designed. The hydrant is a 3/4. Looking for a way to reduce the time it takes to kick the pump on. And i think the only way to do that is drop the pressure faster.

 

[tward]

@Valveman i want to say thank you for your info about these. I was not aware. I appreciate your expertise.

Absolutely the best thing I did when i replumbed the house was installing one of these.

 

[Valveman]

Thanks! so, you do not have a variable speed pump. You have a Cycle Stop Valve instead. The little 4.5 gallon tank shown only holds about 1 gallon of water. If it is taking 20 seconds to drop to 50 and start the pump, you are using about 3 GPM, like a shower. If you open something larger the pressure will drop quicker. Normally people don't notice the pressure drop for 20 seconds. Larger tanks cause the pressure to drop for much longer, and it is noticed. I usually recommend the smaller tank like you have to solve this problem. However, there are a couple things you can try.

First check any filters you have as they further reduce the pressure, especially if dirty. When it drops to 50 at tank, it could be only 30 at the shower if the filter is dirty.

You can also turn up the pressure switch. Loosen the small adjustment in the pressure switch until it is no longer touching the spring. Then tighten the large adjustment screw about 4 full turns. This should turn the pump on at 60 and off at about 77. A shower will still cause the pressure to drop for 20 seconds from 77 to 60 until the pump starts, then the CSV will maintain 60 for the rest of the shower or water use. This will also increase the run time from 20-30 seconds to a minute or so, which is good. Worth a try to see if you like it better.

 

[tward]

Thank you for the detailed response.

Yes there is a filter in place and is probably in need of a change. Raising the cut on pressure would also help in the right direction as well. I do that this weekend when I am home. Stay tuned!

 

[Valveman]

I'll bet cleaning the filter will have a big impact on the pressure. Try that first.

 

[tward]

sorry for the delay, life got in the way of the fun.

Changed the filter and followed the instructions on adjusting the switch and it worked! there was basically no drop in pressure at the hydrant.

The only issue is I appeared to have changed the switch from a 50/70 to a 60/80. I loosened the large adjustment 2 full turns for a net change of tightening 2 turns but it still cuts off at 80. makes showers a bit more fun, but i think it should come back down to 70. Is the small adjustment or the large adjustment for the cut off pressure?

 

[Valveman]

You should never mess with the small adjustment in a pressure switch. The large adjustment screw does both on and off. The small screw is just the difference between the two. Loosen all the way off on the small adjustment screw for 17-20 PSI between on and off, then adjust the large adjustment screw to turn off the pump where you want it. The switch won't make any difference on the user pressure as the CSV will adjust that. With a 50/70 setting you want the CSV adjusted to hold 60 PSI constant while running a shower. With the switch set at 60/80 you want the CSV holding 70 PSI constant for the shower. With 60 or 70 PSI constant from the CSV you shouldn't even need soap in the shower.

 

[tward]

You should never mess with the small adjustment in a pressure switch. The large adjustment screw does both on and off. The small screw is just the difference between the two. Loosen all the way off on the small adjustment screw for 17-20 PSI between on and off, then adjust the large adjustment screw to turn off the pump where you want it. The switch won't make any difference on the user pressure as the CSV will adjust that. With a 50/70 setting you want the CSV adjusted to hold 60 PSI constant while running a shower. With the switch set at 60/80 you want the CSV holding 70 PSI constant for the shower. With 60 or 70 PSI constant from the CSV you shouldn't even need soap in the shower.

Sorry, I misunderstood the instruction - "You can also turn up the pressure switch. Loosen the small adjustment in the pressure switch until it is no longer touching the spring. "

Nope, I'll save a ton on soap and shampoo!

I'll be able to back it off in the morning. Stay tuned.